Dave Jackson - Profit From Your Podcast

Do you want to start making money from your podcast? Will we talk to a hall of fame podcast or who is the perfect person to show you how Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting has written a new book, entitled profit from your podcast, which talks about your next steps after launch. Dave is also an amazing coach and share some fantastic stories of past failures from podcasters that you can avoid.

Let's get to it.

ed in, I want to say it was a: 2005

There was no iTunes yet. There was no Apple and you go to somebody and go, Hey, do you want to start a podcast? And they go, do I need an iPod for that? And you're like, no, it was just the first few years was just painful. I think all of the problems that I've heard from recent podcasters, and it's always can you start one for free?

What's the best microphone. Those are always like the questions. And so I can imagine over the years you've heard. All and seeing all of the mistakes that a lot of podcasters have made. And I think one of them is worrying too much about all of the gear and all of the tech and all of the muck before they actually worry about what they're going to talk about.

Yeah. I've actually, I had a guy hire me as a client. And he had put out thousands of dollars had this really nice video layout and nice DSLR camera and lighting and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, he had all this, just everything was just top-notch and I'm like, great it go tell me about your podcast.

And he goes, that's the part I need help with. And I was like, Oh, okay let's, let's back up a little bit. We got the cart a little bit, just a little bit before the horse there. So yeah, but you don't have to spend thousands of dollars. I usually tell people about the price of an X-Box. We'll get you up and going, Dave.

I love your story. You definitely are. I would call you a self-made man. When I read about how you started, basically, like you said, with the government cheese and worked your way up to where you are today, it just. That's what sometimes, like to say, it's that way now is one of the great things about America, but I got an, I got to ask you about this crystal ball, right?

Because in the book at the end of the preface, and I told Chris, this was just like you must've known something. He goes, one last thing as I write this it's February 20, 20, things may change by the time you read this. Please keep that in mind. I was like, how did he know? Yeah. I just off the crystal ball every now and then ask it for a couple of lottery picks and then Do you know, magic eight ball.

Will there be a pandemic in: 2020

Is this your. First book that you've really written. It's the first time I've worked with a publisher. My very first book, my very first podcast was for musicians. And it was called, get your band out of the basement and keep them out of the asylum. And so that was my first one and I put it on Amazon, the whole nine yards.

And then I want to say about seven years ago, the book was called more podcast money and it was it was like the precursor to profit from your podcast. In fact, I'd actually started to. Rewrite that, because that version of the book doesn't even mention Patrion, there was no crowdfunding back then when I wrote the book.

And so I started, I was like, I need to rewrite this. And it was just so funny. And at that point I got an email from a publisher that said, Hey, You seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to podcasting, would you be interested in writing a book about profiting from your podcast? And I was like as a matter of fact, I'm working on that right now.

So that was a, it's been a little different as a podcaster, as an entrepreneur, you're used to just let's hit the ground running and go. And this is different working with a publisher. There are pros and cons to each, but I'm just used to, Hey, this is what I want to do. Let's do it. And they're like it has to go through this checkpoint and that, then this person's going to give it to Harold.

this was back in September of: 2019

And I was like, wait, how does it take nine months to make a baby and 10 months to make a book? So it's, but on the other hand, they've, it looks really nice and it, it's a different experience and pay wise. It's different. When you self publish, you put out all the money up front, you buy the, in my first book I had two editors and I hired a guy to.

Design my my cover, this, they pay you upfront and they do all that fun-filled stuff. And then you get royalties later. Question Mark, hopefully, that's how that's going to work. So there are pros and cons to each in your book. You're basically seeing the things that everybody needs to a prophet in your podcast.

And what I loved about it was. The last thing you talk about are the tools are the specific tools. And again, it goes back to listen, if you're a podcast or stop worrying about the Shure, SM seven B Mike and getting this huge expensive thing. Worry first about what you're doing on your podcast.

And I think that message is great to hear from someone like yourself has been doing it, for 15 plus years in the podcasting space. So I was that intentional on your part to leave that last or it was just because. Again, I knew that things were going to change. Cause I was like, this is the technology part, right?

Let's save this to the very end. And that way, if something changes, it'll be there. And I've also got a spot in the book for people that buy the book that they can go and I'll have a thing online where, cause it's going to change. It's just, that's the nature of technology. So then in the future, if you want an updated list of that'll be an option as well for those thoughts.

So when you do update for. Tools that you think would be valuable for someone who's bought your book today. And it's three years from now, you'll have an updated sort of tools list. He's got a link, but we're not going to share because you got to buy the book. I just said it right. Don't give it away to everyone.

The the fun thing is I have an episode of the school of podcasting and it's 27 steps to start a podcast. And it's actually one of the few episodes I really want to go back. And rerecord because I'm talking about buying a mixer and buying this microphone. And it's that is not what I would recommend today because things have just, they've made it easier.

And I was thinking about that the other day, because somebody said don't, I need a mixer. And I'm like, who's telling you to get a mixer. And I'm like you are in this episode over here. And I was like, Oh, I might want to redo that. So I wanted to do two things there. Number one is. To sign up and get this extra information.

You're going to have to give me your email. And that doesn't mean I'm going to spam you to death, but it means I am going to have further contact with you. Hopefully in the future and we can start that relationship. So that's one. And then number two, you get the updated stuff. As it as life happens and technology changes, you get to keep up to date with the latest stuff, as someone who does has given you my email, I will say that you, I do not get spammed, but I do love the email that I get from you.

It's the halftime. Email. Yeah. What I can remember. It's one of those things right now, I'm in the middle of moving. I don't know if you guys have moved lately. It's so much fun to pick up everything you want and move, but it's just simply, here's a cause people say you have so many podcasts.

How do I keep up with them? And I'm like here sign up for my newsletter. And it's just, here's what I did, who is her interviewed. And then sometimes something will catch my eye and I'm like that's kinda cool. And I'll just, it's just links. It's Hey, here's a quick and I call it the halftime report cause it's Wednesday.

And I figured between Monday and Sunday, Wednesday's in the middle and it's just a way to keep up to date with what's going on until The next school of podcasting comes out. Amazon actually did a launch podcasts recently, so I thought it would be great while we have Mr. Dave Jackson on the show.

Dave, I don't know if you've had a chance to to play around with with podcast in the Amazon music app and lo and behold, look at this, They just top of the charts here on the Amazon school of podcasting. Any thoughts on Amazon launching podcasts in general?

For one, I love it. Just, it's another phone book for lack of a better phrase. It's something that gives you think about it. The phone books make makes it easy to find whatever it is you're looking for. So to me, it's another really big phone book. Which is great. I love the fact that the formatting of it, if you compare it to something like Spotify and some other apps that, they aren't really fully embracing podcasting maybe and all the links work and things like that.

So I'm thrilled. I was like, all right well done. And they didn't do in the past. Other companies would make a copy. Of your file, which created this weird, you had your normal stats and then you'd have like your Amazon stats. They're not doing that. So they've learned, I think, from other people's mistakes, which is a great strategy, no matter what you're doing.

And I'm excited. I know Rob ball choose the vice-president of Libsyn. On the last episode of the feed said after I think it was a week or a day or something like that, it was already getting more attention than some apps that have been around for years. So it's one of those things where. Things jump in and out of podcasting and you never sure exactly what the impact is going to be in.

Rob said, we probably won't know until the end of November exactly how many people are using this, but I'm just hoping that they just help promote podcasting. And that one person's apart what you know, that they might actually click on that and find that to your point. I think I'm happy that this is just casting a wider net.

There's a ton of people that don't know what a podcast is and it being available on a massive platform like Amazon, it just can't help, but be good. And if that creates more fans, more listeners of not just our content, but podcasts in general, maybe they gravitate to another app. That's got. More stuff going on, where you can save playlists and share more easily and have all of that other stuff, but it's a gateway.

And I think when Spotify launched, it was the same thing. It is a podcast app. It was a music app and there, there was, but just think of the impact for podcasts in general, to be able to just cast that wider net. Yeah. And the I just refer to her as the woman in the tube.

So we don't set off people's little hockey puck on your desk, but from my understand, it's going to be easier. To call up a podcast via your voice. Now that they have that set in both in the past, they were using tune-in as their default. So I'm sure tune in is just thrilled that Amazon has got into the podcasting space because they've now, as you might imagine, that's now the default for if you're going to use your voice to call a podcast that there'll be using that.

So it's awesome. I'm glad to see them. Yeah. I wonder if you've already spoken to the woman with the letter, the name that starts with a and the POC on your desk. If you've already sinked that with another player. If they'll supersede that and redirect you to, or will they just like out of consumer experience and user experience, maybe they just let that go and all new devices will have that, inherently in them.

Yeah. I think if you haven't said anything in the app, in the woman's app, that starts with a I think if you haven't done anything, then it's the default. But if you go in and say, My default in a video, streaming is Netflix and my podcast is blah, blah, blah, whatever. Then I think they'll leave it alone.

Yeah. I don't have one of those devices around me and you guys have headphones on, so it's an Alexa device where on Amazon. I have to say it. We can't tiptoe around it. And not to mention Chris, I think. One of the things. And I think that's where I sometimes look at Amazon is that sleeping giant is they have so much data, so much information, and they really in some aspects have been first when it comes to voice, whether it's flash briefings or all this other things.

So this, I thought, I think, is a logical step for them. And I do believe it's not all podcasts, but some podcasts are actually even being pushed into the audible platform. So I wanted to talk about something that Dave brought up in a. I want to say it was in chapter two where we're content is King. And I love how he describes it because Chris, how many times do we talk about people are, they're worried about countdown timers and their video, and they're spending all this money, and this really resonated with me, it's content that moves you.

It taps into your emotion. It entertains you. It makes you laugh. It makes you cry. It makes you think it makes you groan. It educates or entertains you. If your contents not doing that, nobody's going to listen. Nobody's going to watch. And I think people forget that they get so caught up in, Oh, I want to get my stuff out there and just people are going to come buy from me.

No, they're not. And. And Dave also talks about the relationship building piece and building community. And I think that is so important. And, I've been reading about some of these examples of people that he talks about. And as I was like, wow, I never thought of it. My, my step son is actually becoming a crime scene investigator.

And I was reading about this coroner that Dave talks about how this guy has developed this. He, like he said, he's probably making more per month than we can even think about right now, just from starting a podcast and a website in a niche. He shrines with quiche type of thing.

So I thought that was pretty cool. And then the next chapter he talks about presentation is queen. And of course I'm disliked. Wow. So Dave, you're a genius in my book anyway. I appreciate that. Yeah. You're talking about Darren Dake, who does the corner talk and this was the guy that started off, a lot of people, if we take the Joe Rogan's of the world and the Dax Shepard, and think these guys have been entertainment for years, Darren Dake was a coroner in the middle of Missouri.

So no huge social following, things like that. He just wanted to talk to other corners. And so he started her corner talk and started to do that. And then somebody said, this guy seems to know what he's talking about. Maybe we should have him come talk at our, some sort of assembly or whatever.

And then somebody saw him talk and said, Hey, can you come talk to my thing? And it just, it didn't happen overnight there. I just heard this new phrase. I don't know. I guess it's been around for a while. You don't eat the fruit the day you plant the seed. And I was like, I love that. So this took a while to build up, but eventually he found this weird loophole where some States don't, you love the government.

Some States make you get certified every year. To keep your corner status, but they don't offer the training. I was like, that is brilliant. So this is a case where Darren hopped in he's up to his neck and his niche, and he finds out that there's a need, Hey, these people need certified. There's no place to go.

So he built one and he actually started, I believe in his bedroom. And then he moved to the basement of a church and now he actually has his own kind of building. And just in time for you guessed it Corona virus, he started doing training online and now as it is just making. A lot of cash doing it.

He was one of the guys on my, can we put what you make? And he goes no, that's good. He goes, it's a, it goes, but he let me know. It's a lot. And I was like, that's it. I amen. My friend. I'm so glad. And that's one of the things I wanted to do. Was, I didn't want it to be the Dave Jackson show. Here's what I've done.

And here's, it's no. And it was more, I didn't start off to do this, but people are like, it's like little baby white papers of here's what this guy did. Here's what it worked. Here's what didn't work. I know, I talk a lot about Jonathan Oaks who has a trivia podcast when it comes to Patrion.

Cause he's just crushing it over there. So I just interviewed a lot of different people. And that's where I lucked out. I just reached out to the school of podcasting audience and I said, Hey, if you are making a dime with your podcast, I want to talk to you. And so it took a while to do all the interviews and things like that, but it really is.

Rob Walch from Lipson has a great example of this, how it really is the content you cannot. If you spend, $500 a month or a thousand dollars a month on Facebook ads and your show. Isn't any good. You're just letting the world know faster that your show isn't any good. And he brings up the example.

There was, I wish I knew what year it was. The lone ranger had Johnny Depp when Johnny Depp was like super hot and some other guidance, the lone ranger and Johnny Depp playing Tonto. And we had the hamburger happy meal ready to go. We had the dolls, we had the posters. You name it, it was ready to go.

And it was just per nauseum. Every time you turned it on, here's another ad for the lone ranger. There was one problem. That movie was horrible. I saw it and it was like, wow, that was not what I expected. Meanwhile, you've got movies like the sixth sense by M night Shyamalan. And what's interesting about that movie.

That was it. Wasn't an independent movie, but it wasn't a big budget movie either. And what's great about that movie is not only when you come out, do you want to see it again? But you tell a friend, so it really it's the content and word of mouth, especially report after report comes out and I'm a big fan of social media and, advertising, but the number one way, people are still finding out about podcasts.

It's word of mouth it's when somebody goes, did you hear this? Holy cow? So even this book, Dave, cause I'm telling you just from what I've read, so far I'm like, wow, I got to check out this podcast and that podcast, because that I think sometimes is the challenge with podcasting and live streaming in general is how do you get out to your audience?

And so even before we get to profit, it's like, how do we get that out there and distributed? And so I think. This is definitely something that, that people need. Your book is filling a need, right? It's not just a want, it's a need. Cause a lot of times it's ultimately, why are you podcasting?

Why are you writing a book? It's because you're looking to get more customers, clients, Sure we might do some of this because we just want to feel good about ourselves, but ultimately it's a lot of time and energy if you're not seeing like to your point can eat the fruit before you plant the seeds and let those things grow.

I always tell people, starting a podcast is not hard. I could grab my phone right now. And burp into it and it'll be on Apple in two days. So starting a podcast is not hard. Starting a good podcast is hard because you have to figure out and you brought up a great point. Why are you starting this podcast?

So that's option one. Then you have to figure out who am I talking to? And then, so these people like to talk about topics, a, B, and C, and you want them to either, buy your product or tell the world about their, your message or things like that. And then you have to figure out, okay, what can I talk about?

What, where do these crisscross each other, so that they're going to help me do what I want out of this podcast, but also will hold their attention. And that's the part that's tricky. You really have to figure out, okay, who am I talking to? Why am I doing this? And it's, there is no one size fits all. If I'm doing a busy moms podcast, it's not going to be 30 minutes long.

Why? Because they're busy moms and they don't have 30 minutes to watch a TV or listen to a podcast. And if I want to do, if the, if my, why. Is, I want to keep my name in front of my target audience. Then I might do a daily show, but it's only five minutes long. I used to I'll remember it was brought to you by the association of Christian athletes.

I forget the name of the podcast. But their branding left and everyday this guy would come on. His name was Jimmy page. Remember? Cause I'm like the guitar player from led Zeppelin is now he's with the fellowship and he would come on and they would say something like, do you know that carrots are good for you?

Blahblahblahblah yard and it was literally like two minutes long, just a little tip and then brought to you by the association of Christian athletes. And it was every day and it worked because I still, I don't remember the name of the podcast, but I do remember their brands. So it depends on why am I doing this?

If I want to be seen as an expert, then maybe I'll do a weekly show and do a deep dive and, look at all the information that I know I'm an expert. So to your point, people forget. They're in a business, and where, whatever business you're in, you have to identify who your customer is.

And when you're starting a podcast, who is your ideal listener? Who are you speaking to? What did they want to hear? How can you serve them? And too many people, I think start, like I've got to do a podcast because I just need to do a podcast because they're hot and I'd like to make money. So how can I, and then they're forgetting all of those key components that you're, everybody's doing it.

Yeah. When somebody asks me, what's the best thing to podcast about to make the most amount of money in a shorter amount of time. I'm like, just, don't just trust me. Don't just stop please. I I just did an episode and this is the one I think that most people skip is. My latest episode is six things that will make your podcast interesting.

And I found this clip. And it's Ron Howard being interviewed by the guy Kurt Loder. You might remember him from MTV and Ron Howard has had a few successes under his belt, Apollo 13, et cetera, et cetera. And Ron Howard, before it goes out to the public, does a screening and poles, his audience.

Cause he's look, I'm in the business of connecting with my audience. And even though I've done all the editing and things like that, until it goes out to the, to everyone. I want to make sure it's doing what I set out to do. And I think podcasters and understand why look we work. We work really hard on our podcast and to a certain extent, it's our art man.

So I get that and it's hard to go, Hey, I just work like eight hours on this 45 minute podcast because I'm brand new to this. And to hand it to somebody go, can you talk about this? Like a nod in the room. It takes a little bit of courage, but if we go back to marketing, If it's not connecting with your audience yet, then you really don't want to go tell everybody yet.

It's like here, put, check out this product. It doesn't work yet, here I worked a long time on it and that's tough and that's where again, but what's great is when you finally do figure out. What your audience wants and you do see that it's working. Okay. Now when it's time to, amplify that with some advertising or, going on other shows to promote it or whatever you're going to do to get the word out.

But I do see that as, and I understand why I just, I always, when I see somebody and I go, okay, why are you getting any good feedback? Did you do any kind of focus group? And they go my mom said it was good. My mom, my family, and my friends. And I'm like, yeah, mom is always going to say it was good for the record.

You need to do a little more than that. That reminds me, you do a show and that where you'll sit down with a podcaster. Yeah, you do it with another gentleman and you'll sit down with a podcast or, and hit play on an episode. And actually while that podcasters there live you'll go through and critique and coach live while that person is there, which is a super interesting.

I forget. What's the name of the show again? It's called the podcast review show and there's a few examples of this in the book. Am I going to be that guy it's in the book? I don't want to be that guy, but anyway, you're already that guy, you wrote it. It's your book, but this is what happens is you jump into.

Your niche and like Daniel, J Lewis is one Daniel J. Lewis from the audacity to podcast.com. Daniel was a web designer and a graphic person and thought he was going to be promoting his web design business. But his show is called the audacity to podcast. And people thought it was about the free software called audacity and people that are really.

Excited about free software are not really excited about paying four figures for a website, but what Daniel did was he figured out what are these? I have an audience. What do they need? And that's when all they need, they really like reviews. And they like all this other stuff. So he made products for the audience that assembled.

And that's what I did with a podcast review show. When I first started off and people are like, Hey, this is cool. Can you listen to my podcast and let me know what you think about it. And I started doing that and after a while, it was like, this has taken. If I really do a good job here, this has taken three hours.

I can't do this for free forever. And so I just started charging people for it and thinking. Are they really going to? Yes. If you can, what happens almost with every product is your what's your selling is transformation. So like right now, I'm in the process of moving. I am paying a guy, cause I always say you're going to pay in one of two currencies, either time or money and being that I got to be in this house and out of this apartment sooner than later I'm paying in money in that aspect.

So you're paying for transformation and or convenience or things of that nature. And I'm trying, I'm helping them transform their show. And they're polishing it and they're, getting rid of the rough edges and things like that. And people actually pay for things that are free.

And if you don't believe me, go to Amazon, you can find the wizard of Oz. And if you wait long enough, it'll probably be back on TBS and about a week or so. That's on all the time. And you'd be surprised at what people will pay money for. It's great. Because I talk to people all the time in the consulting and the training business that I do and much like what you're saying, it's listen, Sometimes I'm having a conversation like you can, you're smart enough.

You know how to put, you can put together a podcast. I can, you can do even do it for free, really, if you want to give away your content to anchor. But if anybody can do that, not anybody, to do it. You're smart enough. You could do it by yourself. You know what? I can mow my lawn too.

I can do my own taxes too, but what. Do, what do you do? Sometimes you're going to pay a landscaper because you're always kill your lawn. And sometimes you just don't want to keep up with the tax laws. So you pay a CPA to do your taxes. And if you want to do you want your taxes done the best way possible and properly?

So you don't, have an audit and all of that or you want, you're a really nice looking lawn. You're going to hire someone. To do that. So it's very, I guess that's the analogy that I use that seems to apply. Absolutely. And I have time and time again, have made a logo for some sort of podcast or whatever, and then I'm like, no, that looks pretty good.

You start patting yourself on the back and be like, okay. You know what, maybe I should hire an actual graphic person and I will hire them and they will come back and I'm like, Oh, this is, it looks like I did mine in a crayon. It's just let somebody who lives in that world do it. Shout out to the designer of the school of podcasting.

Logo which yeah. Mark over at the podcast, branding.co. Oh man. That is, that is stellar. That is eye catching. I mean it does, it checks all the boxes in terms of, if you're a little app on, on a, or if you're a little square on an app on a phone, you got to catch someone with some colors and they got to know what it is before they're going to, push play.

And I think that one checks all the boxes. I love it. And Mark does exactly what I talk about in the book. First things first, he listened to his audience and he said I told him, I said I have a guy working on it. I said, I might not be explaining this. Because we're just not clicking. He's a super nice guy, super talented, but for some reason, Everything has given me, he goes what are you looking for?

And I go, I don't know, like a school crest, and maybe a microphone or something in the background. And, but yet have lettering there was a thing college football on ESPN. I go, I liked that thing. And literally within, I don't know, a half hour is like something like this.

And I'm like, that's exactly it. So when you listen to your audience, Find out what they want and then give it to them. They're really happy. And they'll be happy to pay for that. They're like, yes, that's exactly what I want. Yeah. Mark, over podcast, branding.co. I will give him, I will happily give him a shout out.

I actually have a viewer question over here on Amazon. Dave, what is the big difference between your first book? More podcast money to your new book. What has changed in eight years? Wow. I bet a lot. That's actually Kyle Bondo. That's from Kyle Bondo. Who was also, he does a pod wrecked.

Is a, one of his shows about podcasting. He also does merchants of dirt, which I think is just one of the best names. I just like saying merchants of dirt. Oh. Tour with my finger death gigs. The biggest thing is Patriot. There was no crowdfunding when I wrote the original book and there's just more. There were things that I didn't think of.

There's a section in the book about non-profits and how, if you actually go out and try to be a nonprofit, you actually have to have a board of directors to be a nonprofit. And that just sounded like a lot of work, but I found where you can actually find another nonprofit. And there's a example of somebody who does a A podcast about global warming and he found this kind of non-profit and said, Hey, I fit with your mission.

Can I come under your umbrella? And what's really interesting about that is they gave him a credit card and people donate to the top non-profit, but it then goes to him and they just take a small portion, much like Patrion does. So things like that, that I just never thought of. I was like, I didn't even know you could do that.

That's pretty cool because not everybody is out to. I sell a book or consulting or, things of that nature. That's one, the there's just more people, I guess there's more examples when I did it before there were a few people, but the first book was a lot of the stuff that I was doing. And this was like, Hey there's definitely things.

Here's my perspective on this. Here's how it worked for me and things like that. So there are stories about things I've done. But this has many more stories from people that are doing really cool things. I think one of my favorite examples is Mark from beyond bourbon street. And one of the things he did I thought was brilliant is he has a private Facebook group for his podcast.

And it's all about, new Orleans and things of that nature. And he had his sponsors in the private Facebook group and the sponsors called two chicks walking and it was time for their contract to come up for renewal. So Mark goes to his private Facebook group has about 700 people in it and says, Hey, has anybody gone into two chicks walking tour?

They're like, Oh wow. We did. It was great. This is, these ladies are awesome. It was one of the best times I've ever had. Yada, how easy is it then to go, Hey. It was time to sign the contract again. You want to renew. And I was like, Ooh, that is that's. Chocolatey goodness, in terms of a strategy to get people to to renew.

So just things like that. Jonathan Oaks has, I, I do a thing on Jonathan Oaks. There's some great insights into not, I got to watch how I say this. I'm not going to take a product. I'm in one right now I have a product. That I really and their competition has approached me to be a sponsor and I'm like I'm moving.

I need money to pay these people at the moment. I'm okay. But I'm like, yeah, starting to watch the savings, go down a little bit. And I was like, these people want to give me money. I'm like, yeah. But if somebody said, Dave, what would you recommend for this situation? It wouldn't be them. And I was like, I can't, I don't know that I can do that.

And cause once Cashing your integrity. It's really hard to get it back. I always say podcasts are start. Most of us start with two things in common. We have no audience and we have integrity. And it's just a matter of how do I build that in and keep it? Yeah, I totally agree. And that's how, Rogan and me.

Andy's right. Yeah. He just started talking about him because he really liked the underwear. I'm sure he was approached by many underwear companies, but he's this is what it, and so I and to your point, it's like, how are you going to expect other people to follow you up a Hill and listen to you and do all the things you're going to do and actually recommend something that you really like when you've.

Kind of not done that and just went for the cash grab on something that you really don't believe it. Yeah. And you mentioned just mentioning a product going back to Mark from beyond bourbon street, before two chicks walking, which is the name of the tour. He just started mentioning them.

He w there was nothing said he was just like, Oh, these guys seem pretty cool. I know them, blah, blah, blah. And so they came over to him and they were like, Mark wheat. We don't quite know what this pod thing is, but you've tripled our business. You've tripled our business. And Mark was like maybe we should talk about being a sponsor.

So affiliate link. Yeah, exactly. I know another person you talk about, and I know if this has been a big change in the last few years, as well as is Pat Flynn and just the whole world of affiliate marketing. To me, it seems like it's a lot more prevalent. Like I don't even think eight years ago we thought about affiliate marketing.

Maybe some people did. Is that something you would say has changed a lot in the last eight years? Yeah, because now I remember when I first started getting into a affiliate marketing, you cross your fingers. You're like, Ooh, I hope they have an affiliate program. And now almost everything has, if you look at the bottom of the page, it's almost always affiliates partners or something like that.

And you can make a decent amount of money. I talk in the book, I'm a big fan of Jillian Michaels when she was on the biggest loser and Julian Michaels used to have a podcast and she stopped doing the podcast because she went back to the biggest loser. So here again, there a bunch of people going, what happened to the Jillian Michaels podcast.

So I was like people want to join Michael's podcast. I'm going to make one. So I made the Julian Michael's podcast. I explained to people that I am not Julian Michaels, but I really liked her. And I would read her blog and I would basically stalk her in a very loving, polite way and talk about what she's doing on Facebook and that woman put her name on anything.

And all of it had affiliate marketing to it. And my favorite was she came out with an audio book for, she had four books out. This was the first one that was an audio book that she read. And I went to them. I had an affiliate program with audible and I said, Hey, if you want to hear Jillian reader book, you can get it for free.

Here's the link. And that was a nice four figure affiliate check. So with the right product, And the right, audience, I talk about, I have a weight loss show. If I stood up, it does not look like I do a weight loss show, but I'm trying dog on it. And I was promoting the total gym for a year because I had one.

I liked it. I always tell people that's a great way, especially with affiliate marketing, go to your favorite products and see if they have an affiliate program. And so I had a total gym and at the time Christie Brinkley and Chuck Norris were promoting it per nauseum on TV. And I'm like, I'll just ride their coattails.

And for a year I talked about it. Just nothing. Finally, at the end of the year, somebody bought one, got my $75 a commission check. And I was like, Oh cool. If I could only do this every week, but it turns out my audience wasn't really interested in that. And I found out one day I find this cool thing called fit decks.

And you could basically deal yourself a little workout. And I bought one again. I want to make sure it's cool. Bought one, dealt myself a workout. Did it got on the microphone? And Hey, I did this. It's so easy. And I said, I'm actually, I think this is going to work. I'm sore. And I said the magic phrase, I said, I could see where you can turn this into a game with your kids.

And that's where I found it, that a lot of my audience had kids. And they were $15 a deck. I would make a dollar 50 a deck. And at the time I was still, I used to be a teacher in the corporate world and I had my phone set up so that if somebody bought something, if I had an affiliate sale, it would come through and I hear this little churching on my phone and it was just, I find, had to turn off my phone cause it's just like teaching.

So it's a dollar 50, but they had multiple decks. So people would buy four or five decks and I was getting three and occasionally a four figure check. A dollar 50 at a time because I had the right product for the right audience. And that had a pretty big audience. And the more they, and then once I saw that it worked well, then I started talking about it even more.

The only thing that I don't know that I need to investigate with affiliate marketing, and maybe you guys can answer this. I keep hearing that the cookie is going away. And I'm like, how is that going to work with affiliate marketing then? So I don't have the answer to that, but that's something I have in my to do list of, Hey, You need to get that answer, because if I'm asking that question, my audience is going to be asking that question.

And if I want to position myself as the quote expert, I got to go find that here, who takes the cookie away? Like how does that even there's a show called the new media show with Todd Cochran who runs blueberry. It's a podcasting network. And Rob Greenlee, who's the head of the that podcast association thing that I can't think of right now, he also works with.

Yeah, the Academy, as well as he works for Lipson as well. And Todd keeps mentioning that Google is taking the cookie away and then I was like, don't take the cookie away. That's no. Just so I need to first. Go do you know, go do a quick search on that because people can repeat things. I talk about this in my last episode.

If people repeat it enough, you start to think it's true. And it turns out that sometimes that's not the case. I hope that's not the case because affiliate marketing is pretty handy. You guys brought up Pat Flynn and we were talking about integrity. A great story here. Pat makes a gazillion dollars a month with Bluehost, which is a media host or I'm sorry, a web host and blue host, their support started to wane a little bit.

And again, if you're recommending something for somebody. That's your brand you're lending your brand to, to kind of them. And he started to get complaints and he actually set up a meeting and went to the blue host's like corporate building and said, Hey, here's the deal. You either fix this.

Oh, by the way, here's the zillions of customers. I've sent you, you either fix this. Or I'm going to start promoting somebody else and you better bet that they and I, from what Pat said, he now has like a dedicated PatFlynn support person at Bluehost because he sends them so many customers, but that's a matter.

Yeah. So that's the power of being an influencer, but also. Pat knows that's his brand. And if he starts recommending something that isn't that good. And then he says, Oh, but I really love this stuff. If you've ever had a kid lie to you, if you're a parent and you're like, what do you mean you weren't at Joey's house?

Then the next time, where are you going? Oh, we're just going to go hang down at the pizza place, are you really hanging out? So it's hard to get your trust back if you let it dissolve. PatFlynn is like this level, right? So if you're someone that is, at the feet, the very thin line on the pie chart of people who are making that level of money on affiliate marketing that's you can do that, but a lot of people that are.

Living on rented land that is affiliate marketing, and that's like a huge component of their business. Like to your point, it's if the cookie goes away, what does that mean? If you're counting on that for a good bit of your income, it's you make sure you diversify what you got going on with your income, for sure.

And that's really one of the themes towards the end of the book I talk about. There are people like Jordan harbinger that is just killing it with ads on his show. And there are people like Pat that had now, Pat is a great example. Pat has advertising. He has great affiliate stuff and he has his own products.

So if one goes down, the other one might go up or it'll even itself out. Whereas if you're just doing affiliate stuff. So like when Amazon changed some of their structure, some people really got upset about that, it is what it is. But if you had other. I think it was Adam Curry or Adam Corolla said the pool gets filled quicker.

The more hoses that are in it. And so if you have multiple streams of income, that seems to be, if somebody is doing podcasting full-time, it's not just from ads, it's not just from products. It's not just from affiliates of not just from crowdfunding. It's a mixture of all of those and that way.

If for some reason, I don't know a pandemic hits and your crowdfunding goes down. We'll maybe your affiliate stuff will go up because everybody's buying webcams to stay home. So the more sources of income you have, the more you can weather, any kind of storm that comes up. I can't tell you how much we, I appreciate you coming on our show, the release date of your book.

It's obviously, I've followed your stuff for years profit from your podcast, Dave Jackson, it doesn't matter if you haven't started a podcast yet you just started a podcast or you've been a podcaster for a number of years. There's going to be. A ton of information and things that you can learn from this book.

And not only that, like we talked about earlier, and you may have missed it. If you do buy this book Dave is going to update things as they're updated and go along. So if he talks about a particular piece of gear and something changes and he realizes, he said something else in the book, there will be ongoing updates for those that that purchase the book.

And it's just been, David's been a pleasure, man. I, I appreciate you. Yeah. Taking the time and doing this with us today. Jim and Chris, thanks for having me on I really, this was this was fun. All right. Thanks again, Dave. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Dealcasters. Congratulations. You've taken another step forward in your content creation journey, please.

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