Tatiana Rodriguez: Turning Camera Anxiety Into On-Screen Authority

Chris Stone [: 00:00:01

Our next guest has figured out something most content creators are still struggling with. How to turn that terrifying red recording light into your best friend. And she's been perfecting this magic in front of college students who could scroll on TikTok instead of paying attention. Today you'll meet Tatiana Rodriguez, the award winning Rutgers adjunct professor who's cracked that code on camera. Confidence and, and proving that the best creators don't just make content, they create connections. So welcome to dealcasters. Tatiana Rodriguez, thank you for coming on. We've been looking forward to this one.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:00:37

What a warm introduction. Thank you. I have to say, it's very nice to hear all these nice things being said about you. And by the way, I grew up with brothers, so you guys, with your jokes and your instance of, I'm like, this feels like family to me. This feels like being around my brothers. Love it.

Chris Stone [: 00:00:53

That's right. I say it's my love language. You know, Jim and I bust each other's chops all the time. It's just, you know, you know, a lot of people are like, hey, you guys really don't get along at all, do you? And I'm like, no, we just, you know, we just decide we're just gonna, you know, do a podcast together.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:01:09

We just spend as much time as we can together because we do not like each other.

Chris Stone [: 00:01:13

Exactly, Exactly. Tatiana Rodriguez, this is, you know, I love to have guests on like you. Not just because you're a quote unquote content creator, but you're, you're also a college professor. And I love learning things from people that are sort of, maybe outside of your Venn diagram, right. Of how can I learn from someone who is, you know, coaching, you know, wealth advisors, or how can I learn from a gamer, or how can I learn all of these things? Because we're all kind of content creators now. Especially when 2020 hit, we all were firing out cameras and microphones and trying to learn how to, how to do this thing, and still there's a lot of people that look like they're in witness protection and they sound like they're in an echo chamber and we can count their nose hairs and, you know, they still don't quite have it together. But, you know, you teach this to college students, you know, who could literally scroll TikTok instead of listening and hanging on to your every word. So you have to have your act together because their attention span are going, going like this.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:02:28

Yeah.

Chris Stone [: 00:02:30

Talk to us about, like, how, what, what are content creators missing that, that you bring as, as an adjunct College professor at Rutgers to this mix.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:02:44

Absolutely.

Chris Stone [: 00:02:45

How do you. How do you hold their attention?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:02:47

I guess I want to start by saying there are some things I see educators that get that they get right and some things that they don't get right. Just like I see it with content creators. But like you just said, learning from people outside of our industry is also something that I am a huge fan of. You mentioned gamers. In my mind, it's like I can learn from kids, I can learn from my nieces and nephews. I can learn from other educators in K through 12. I can learn from a person in the business world. We just are continuously learning from others.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:03:22

So I want to directly address what you just said. But first, if I could have you guys back on screen for one second, I want to share the moment that I first met Jim Fuse. Now you. Unfortunately, you don't see him, right?

Chris Stone [: 00:03:40

What are you doing?

Jim Fuhs [: 00:03:41

Witness protection.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:03:42

But he just. He. Exactly. You talk about witness protection. This is him right back there. But we were part of the same team. We were part of the same team at ECAMM creator camp. And so I just wanted to mention he.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:03:56

He told me about his show. He talked about the things that he does with his partner. And so Chris and Jim, that's my. My way of saying thank you for having me on the show today. It's. It's a pleasure to talk about these things that we're talking about. How do we keep attention? I mean, first of all, all of us feel like we all need to up our game. This is a big conversation in education too, I think.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:04:20

Where educators. I'm gonna start with educators. Where educators get it a bit wrong is staying stuck in old thinking patterns. You know, when I was growing up, and maybe when you guys were growing up, because we might be about the same generation. I'm 48. You guys may be a little younger, but growing up, it was about. It was about sitting and listening. Like we must sit and listen.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:04:44

And I had a. I had a teacher. She actually was the principal of our school and she was a nun. And I say was because, you know, she's passed away and she was awesome. And I know that sometimes people have negative experiences with certain types of schooling and with nuns, and I respect that. I had a fabulous experience and she was such a huge influence and she loved to play the guitar. You know, for her, she was also into music. I didn't get that gifting, but really loved her.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:05:16

She taught me so much. And the thing is, I perhaps don't remember everything she taught Me, but about, you know, content or about lessons or the classroom. But like Maya Angelou says, it was the way she made me feel. It was the way she understood me. It was, it was the way she cared about me. And I will say that is the number if you hear nothing that I say today. In the beginning of every semester, I asked my students to fill out some questions. Another professor, again, we teach and learn from each other.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:05:56

Another professor gave me this activity called getting to know you. And so one of the questions in this getting to know you activity is, the best teachers are the ones who. And then all students fill in those blanks. It is always hands down the number one answer from all students every semester that I've ever taught, saying the ones who care about their students, and these are people 18 to 22. And I would bet my life that the answer does not change based on age. I bet that every single one of us wants to know that our educators. And the truth is that as content creators, you are probably educating, if not most of the time, at least part of the time. Yeah, I know that there are some content creators where the main purpose is straight up entertainment, and it's just about being funny.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:06:47

It's not necessarily, it's not necessarily informational. But a lot of us when we're creating content, are teaching, and none of us make content to be forgotten. Nobody says, let me make a great video, let me make a great YouTube channel, or have host this session, because I want everybody to forget what I'm saying. So starting with caring about your people. And I feel like most people do care. Most people care about delivering great content. But in order to have that come across to our audience, we have to be ready to show them that we care. It's not enough to care.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:07:30

We have to show them that we care. Our audience, our people have to know that we care about them. So there's, there's a couple of things. There's like, and, and I'll, I'll, I'll ask you guys this question. Does your audience know that you care about them? And, and based on your answer, the next question is, how do they know that? So let me ask you guys, does your audience know that you care about them?

Chris Stone [: 00:07:52

God, I hope so. I think generally, yeah, because the feedback that we do get, right. So in, in this world, you know, not a lot of times will you get that feedback, you actually solicit it, right? You, in some form of survey or asking questions or engaging, you know, trying to do some, some online engagement. But the comments that we do get, you know, are, I started my podcast, you know, after, after your show because I bought this microphone and these two pairs of headphones because you told me to, to get one or the other based on comfort. So, you know, I think generally people feel like we care that they, you know, get going and get past the mind junk of, of creating content and actually start doing it and get better at it, as opposed to us trying to get money, which I feel a lot of people feel like YouTubers, content creators are just out there trying to be shills, trying to get, you know, you know, whatever the, the money is. So I, I, I couldn't say wholeheartedly yes. So maybe I, maybe I should be taking more of your courses to try to get me care more about what I do well. And I think, yeah, I think some.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:09:09

Of it though too, is because we live stream and you know, people don't always watch you at the time you're going live. The people that engage with us, I definitely feel like there's that connection and we, you know, we help them and, you know, we enjoy their company and we recognize them, but it's kind of like the, after the show, it's like, did somebody watch it?

Chris Stone [: 00:09:31

Right.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:09:31

We have the lurkers. And so, I mean, I guess I'd say the fact that our channel keeps growing, that that's a positive thing. We get a lot of great comments on our YouTube videos of Stuff where we've helped people. So I think, you know, we, and we respond to them. So I think they see that from that perspective, we care. Of course, you know, you always have your trolls, which can be fun. But yeah, I, I think we do, we probably could do better. You know, that's, that's an interesting perspective from a being a creator standpoint of like, how do we show that we care more and, and maybe that substack helps us do that because it's got some tools that we can use there that you can't necessarily do on other channels.

Chris Stone [: 00:10:16

How do we find out if someone cares?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:10:19

Well, I'll tell you guys this. You definitely care, and it definitely comes across me. You mentioned a few things, and one of the first things that stood out is the humility from both of you that, hey, maybe we could do better. How could we find out about this? You know, so you're, you're already saying the kinds of things that caring people say. So number one, you talked about perspective taking, putting yourselves in the shoes of your audience. How does this fit? How is this comfortable giving them ideas, helping them to Solve their problems. These are all ways to show our people that we care. Plus humor.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:10:55

We do not laugh with people we don't like. And when the people who are on the stage, the instructors, the co hosts, whoever, the teachers, whoever they are, when they enjoy themselves, when they enjoy their time together, the people watching feel that, too. And that's another way of saying, hey, we care enough about each other to do this together, to have a good time, to bring you a good perspective. That translates into, we care about you, too. And it is, of course, based on the language that you use, which, if you guys were to, say, use chat GPT to input some of your transcripts and say, please give me examples of ways that we're showing that we care about our audience, you would come up with tons and tons and tons and tons of things because maybe subconsciously, yeah, you're doing so many great things to show them. The whole point of the show is to help your audience. So already, that's a great way to show your audience that you care, but you're doing a great job at it. And I hope that you both can feel really proud of not just.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:12:01

Not just the humor and the help, but also the heart behind all of it, all that you bring to the audience. So number one takeaway from today is don't just care. Think about and show your audience that you care. So draw a nice little heart on screen there for that. We need to show people that we care. That's number one.

Chris Stone [: 00:12:23

Okay, I. Now you're, like, the best teacher ever. It's. No, it's. It's. Seriously, it's like, you know, we get so locked into this podcast thing where it's like, you interview, host, guest, host, guest, host, guest. And Tatiana just flipped the table around, right? And, like, not only, you know, served us. Thank you, by the way, but, you know, serve the audience who's watching.

Chris Stone [: 00:12:48

And speaking of the audience watching, we want to pop in because a friend of the show, Katie Brinkley, is in the house.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:12:55

Hi, Katie.

Chris Stone [: 00:12:56

Hey. Hey. Katie is watching over on Amazon. So she's listening. She's listening because we said dealcasters live. And you can go and get the social shift from Katie Brinkley while you're over there, too. Speaking of listening, Tatiana, you just, like, you listened to what we said. Like, stuff we said in the intro, stuff we said when we were asking you questions.

Chris Stone [: 00:13:22

And you're calling that back, that active listening. How important is it for you, not just as a professor, but as a content creator or as students or as viewers to be Active listening. And how important is that in what you do?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:13:38

I think, of course, I know you guys are going to agree with me. It's extremely important. Listening, being a part of that conversation, present minded is important. And it, it's not always been easy for me to listen because I am guilty and have been guilty most of my upbringing of being so into the conversation and so excited that I'm actually processing my response while the other person is talking. So that was a principle I learned years and years ago and we talk about it in my leadership class too. From, from Stephen Covey, you know, the seven habits of Highly Effective People that, that old book that like everybody has and most people haven't fully read yet. Yeah, I've actually, I've actually read it. I've actually read it because just like anything, if I want to learn something, I'm like, if I teach it, I will learn it.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:14:27

So I will go teach it because it's, it's important. But one of the principles is to, you know, we need to listen without getting our reply ready. Listen to understand not a lot of us. And I think it doesn't come from a bad place. It's not from selfishness, it's from my gosh, I'm so excited to participate in this and to connect that I'm already like, I'm going to say this. Oh, this connects to that. I'm going to share my story and what I learned. I mentioned I have brothers.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:14:55

I'm also the oldest, right? Oh, and, and the oldest only girl. And there's only three years between the four of us. So my, my parents had four kids in three years and there's a set of twins in there too. Gee, so, you know, we're growing up. We're all back to back. I feel a million years older than them even though, even though I'm only one year older than my brother and then, you know, he's only two years older than the twins. But I feel like I'm a million years older and I feel in charge. Okay, I sure have been in charge.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:15:24

I'm used to being in charge. But one of the lessons my, my youngest sibling taught me is that it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I can be right, but it doesn't matter if I don't deliver that in a way that's helpful to the listener, to the learner, to the audience member, whoever it is, we have to consider who are we talking to and how do we say it in a way that's helpful so for me, content creation, teaching the active listening means I have a plan. I mean, I am. I always say to my students, I am the pilot of this plane. That, that is true. Right. I'm the one who's taking us to our destination.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:16:10

I'm the driver. My experience as the pilot is not the only one whose experience matters on this plane. Right. The people in the seats, they get served. They're paying for a service. They're paying for their university education or the course online, or they're paying with their time and with their attention. Even though our content on YouTube is mostly free, you know, there. There is an exchange of something that they are contributing and their experience really matters.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:16:39

How will we know unless we listen if their experience is a positive one? So asking and listening are huge ways that we help build that care, but also that experience. Because at the end of the day, it's not just about creating a class for me, it's not just about getting through the content of a book or a lesson that's a part of it. It's a. The content is a huge part of it. But beyond that, 10 years from now, are they going to remember a specific term? Maybe. There's a very slim chance they will, though. What they will remember is the value. What they will remember is, you know, when I was experiencing that rough patch, she gave me a little extra time because I went to her.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:17:26

I do, I do hold my students accountable to it. I've had hard conversations with them, but I always tell them I'm a reasonable person. We can work out almost anything if you talk about it with me in advance. So I know that that's a different dynamic than most people on, you know, creating content. You're not necessarily having to have accountability conversations with people. But I, I bring that up because that's how I show that I'm listening. Maybe sometimes that means saying a hard truth to your audience of things that they struggle with. You know, our.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:17:57

For our friend, for Ecamm. Doc is always saying hard things.

Chris Stone [: 00:18:00

Yeah. Yes.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:18:01

And, you know, and I think, I think it comes from a place of love. You know, I consider him like a big brother. The big brother I never had. I wish I had. And I do think that he has a big heart when he says. But it can be hard to hear for some people, but sometimes that is a way of showing that we care. I do think it's important to meet people where they're at. And there's a.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:18:21

There's a saying that I, I hadn't. I haven't Forgotten that people can only meet us as far as they've been willing to meet themselves. And we don't, we don't know that about people unless we find out. So for me, it's about asking my students a lot of questions to see where they're at. Some of them will be anonymous, but we can do that via, via polls, via anonymous things. Sometimes, and I don't just mean like heavy stuff, sometimes we're just asking for fun outside of school. Where, where can you be found? If it's not at school or at work, where are you? And then we get so many insightful things people will say, things like baking, growing plants, all these, these unique, interesting things that make the person who they're gaming or particular or whatever the things that they're into. Because we have to help people get to know each other in that way first.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:19:14

Because once you build the connection, then it's easier for that content to flow through. So showing that you care, creating excellent content. But first building connections, I think is, is a way to create a better experience for our audience, you know, whoever they are. Maybe there are students, maybe they're both, Maybe they're your YouTube audience or your live stream audience and then want to build a course from that so they will become your students in some ways too. But whatever it is, caring, connection, content, I think, I do think those things.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:19:52

Are important and I think it's very important. And you know, and I know you also talk about leadership, but one of the things you hit on that I think is so important is that people have different learning styles and even the way they react to how you approach them, like Chris and I may learn completely different. You could yell at me and I'll do something, but if you yell at Chris, you'll like, shut them down. And not to say that you yell as a teacher, but as a teacher, how do you deal with kind of that mix of, you know, if you want to call it learning modalities.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:20:29

Yeah, a couple of things. People. There is a kind of a. What do you call it when you need to debunk. Not a myth exactly, but something that was believed to be true is that people have learning styles. That's not really true. What is true is that people have learning preferences. Yeah, right.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:20:49

We, we prefer auditory content or we prefer visual content, or we prefer kinesthetic with our hands. So everybody has preferences. It doesn't mean that's how they're going to learn best. In fact, what has been proven to be true is all of us need different ways, different Modalities in order to learn best, which for me means I need to hear it, I need to see it, and then I need to do it. I need all of it. And that's all of us, when we get exposure to all of those things will learn better. A person can have a preference. It doesn't mean that that's going to help them become better at the thing or learn the skill, the task, the concept better by having it in their preferred style.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:21:32

So I just wanted to address what does it mean to have a learning preference versus a true learning style? But then, Jim, what you're saying is about individual personalities, individual things when it comes. And I. Your example is great. You know, one of my brothers was in the military and did. Did personal training for a very long time. His style is militant, and he has helped thousands of people get stronger, get better. For me, that's a demotivating to. That doesn't work with me.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:22:08

We're, you know, we're exercising one Thanksgiving break, and he comes up to me at the gym and says, I saw you doing your workout over there. And I'm thinking, I'm gonna get some reward here. I'm thinking, I'm getting a little dopamine right now. He's. He's. He saw that I was working hard, and he goes, that's not enough. I know you can do much better than that. And to me, that was like, it just doesn't work.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:22:35

But just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. Yeah, because it has works. It does work successfully for other people, my way. I need a gentler approach. I need a, hey, great job. Like, you know, if I'm working out with somebody else, who says, well, I saw you did 10. You think you can do 10 more. I bet you you can do at least five more.

Chris Stone [: 00:22:56

Yep.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:22:57

I'll be like, all right, let me try. Let me try that. It's just like, it's saying the same thing in a different way, but it's about acknowledging my contribution first. Like, I need to feel appreciated. And then the motivation comes. So to answer your question, and I am kind of chatty, so I know, I know I can talk about bring me back in if I fly off the rails here, but. Okay, good. So we're good.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:23:23

So when I think about different personalities, I tell my students, first of all, I start off in the early part of the semester, and I say, look, you can't just learn from me. You can't. I'm going to give you my very best this semester, but I can't please everybody. You know that expression, I'm not a taco? I can't please everybody. I'm gonna give it my best. My particular style, my personality, which it's like this warm but still accountable. Like there's some things that are non negotiable, but I'm. But I'm very kind.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:24:07

But I'm still the big sister kind of a role, you know, like, why are you late? We need to talk about this kind of a thing. But also, hey, I understand. So I've got some built in flexibility with the course. You can be. You can miss one entire class and it will still not affect your attendance because life happens. I'm reasonable, but I'll tell them, you have to help me get to know you. There's only one of me. Let me know how I can help make this a better experience for you.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:24:37

I've had students who have something called letters of accommodation, which is when a student has a learning need that falls outside side of the typical things. Like one, an example could be dyslexia or needing more time on certain assignments because of certain ways of processing information. Right. There's, there's an infinite possibility of things. Or a student with autism. So I did have a student who, you know, he, he played sports. He was in my, one of my classes and he kind of was like embarrassed to come talk to me, but he was like, please don't make me read out loud on the spot. And I said, okay, you know, talk to me about that.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:25:17

And he's like, you know, I have dyslexia. It's just if I have a heads up, I can do it, but I just can't do it on the spot. Like I'm, I'm here, I'm participating. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Thank you for letting me know. Number one, I appreciate that. I, I would never want to have you feel embarrassed. But okay, what, what can I do to help you make this a better experience then? And he was like, that's the first time anybody asked me that.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:25:44

And it was like a compliment he was giving me. But it also was a little bit sad at the same time because he's had more negative than positive experiences around that. And you may not be in the classroom, but you still got people who learn differently in different ways. I think first we have to accept that we're not going to be able to provide personalized experiences to everybody.

Chris Stone [: 00:26:10

Right?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:26:10

But we can ask how I can make it better for you. And you you can show that you care enough to ask the question. And like, how is this for. For us? We call, you know, we do assessments throughout the semester where we're asking how's this course going for you? Somewhere some of them are informal or where if a student comes to me and chats on a, for a one on one for something, I'll take advantage of that moment and say thank you for the conversation today. By the way, how's class going for you? What are your thoughts here? What have been your big takeaways so far? It's not me fishing for compliments, but it's me keeping a pulse on things and making sure they're having a good experience in this class. And I'll flat out ask, like, what's been some of the most fun moments for you so far? Or what's been a fun moment for you in class so far? How are you finding the material? Just anything to find out how things are going for them. Not just assuming things are going great because they feel pretty great to me. So doing those kinds of little pulse checks with our audience is going to be important too.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:27:17

And we have so many great tools at our disposal digitally to be able to do it. Like if, for example, tonight, if we were fully on one platform like in Zoom or on YouTube, I could have used Stream Alive polls to help. But I know you guys are in many different places and the tool is not there yet to be able to cater to.

Chris Stone [: 00:27:36

Okay, that was my question. I was going to get nerdy on Stream Alive with you earlier. I think you can connect it with Restream but it in across multi streams. It doesn't work, but it is a fantastic tool.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:27:47

It really is and I love using it in class. I also use Kahoot with my because I love variety. Like we need a toolkit. But Stream Alive definitely is my preferred method because students never have to leave the platform. They don't click on anything else. They stay right as if we're, if we're in Zoom, they reply right. In Zoom Chat, they don't have to open up any more tabs and their responses count. And it's just a great way to give voice.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:28:12

Polling tools, writing tools, Even commenting on YouTube is a great way to give voice to people who otherwise might feel disconnected.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:28:21

Right.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:28:21

So you know, we have our textrovert friends too who are in, in if we were in person, they're considered in. They consider themselves introverts and they're not going to be the first person speak. But tools like Stream Alive or Kahoot or mentimeter or slido or poll everywhere all make it accessible for everybody to give us an answer. It's so easy, you know, pick one. You don't have to pick what I pick, but, you know, you certainly can. But pick something, even if it's. I have a question in the chat for you and hear from them. Here, here.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:29:00

Listen and hear from them. I think that, that again, we're. I'm just. I feel like I keep coming back to show them that you care to make me and care enough about their experience, what they're looking for to create great content and to provide opportunities for connection. Speaking of caring. Absolutely fantastic.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:29:21

You wanted to share something with us about something going on in your life.

Chris Stone [: 00:29:30

Good segue, Jim.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:29:35

Yes. I have a very special announcement. Good things. You know, I, well, I, I shared with you guys. I'm in the middle of a move and setting up the house and like, so many crazy things. But. And you know, Jim, you had a chance to. To meet my partner in real life back in a ecamm creator camp last year when we were there.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:29:55

And I just let you guys know that he and I are getting married this summer. So I wanted to. I spent a lot of time designing the invitation and our wedding website and everything. So I just wanted to share. I made it on canva, used the knot. If anybody needs a recommendation for maybe you're getting married y. And they have a free. You can make your free wedding website and do an rsvp.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:30:20

So, yeah, I wanted to share with you guys that. That significant part of my life right now.

Chris Stone [: 00:30:26

Congratulations. That is so awesome. And we get to see the. The bestest smile according to Tanya Smith on the Internet.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:30:36

Yeah, she's so sweet.

Chris Stone [: 00:30:37

That's. That's amazing. That and. And Ben is my youngest son's name. So, like, kudos to Ben for having an awesome name.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:30:47

I'll tell his parents. I'll tell his parents he said that.

Chris Stone [: 00:30:51

All right, back on the rails. I wanted to talk about this because we spent a lot of time talking about the classroom. And my mind, my squirrel brain is always thinking about content creation as it relates to this. And so a lot of times you have people that listen to your show or that watch your show and you don't even know it until one day you'll meet somebody at a conference and they'll say, oh, that episode you guys did with Mark Savant and you guys talked about how he used this thing and it helped him do this thing. And I'm thinking to myself, we did that show two years ago, like how I didn't even know you and like, all of a sudden you're telling about an episode that you, that you watched or listened to. So there's lots of people that are, that are lurkers. There's lots of people that are sort of out there. They're just not ready to kind of let you know stuff.

Chris Stone [: 00:31:46

And there's things like surveys, which you can do on PodPage, which we haven't done yet, which we're thinking about doing. But a lot of times, Tatiana, you could like, you know, make yourself open to feedback and say, hey, how could I be doing better here? You know, and asking your students this and trying to cater to as many needs as possible. How do you do that without not watering down what you do, but to continue to be as impactful as you can be? Because if you all things to everyone, are you really as impactful as you could be?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:32:23

No. And I'll tell you for my own personal life, my, my, my current YouTube channel is about helping college educators create dynamic, memorable content for students that, that the students will love and remember and Enjoy. Before my YouTube channel, before that, I was trying to teach communication skills to planet Earth. I was trying to make public speaking classes for the planet. That should have been the title, Public speaking classes for the planet. And it was too much. It's too broad, it's too big. I didn't know who I was talking to.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:32:59

It made it just too difficult to create content because it was for everybody. And you know, that marketing thing, if your content is for everybody, then truly it's for nobody. And I, and I do agree with that. I'm. I know that there are exceptions to every rule, but in my case, that was very much true. And guess what? I was exhausted because I was making content for, for who? Exactly. And so having a new direction. And again, you cannot please everybody.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:33:28

You know, we, and it's the people who are showing up. And we, if you follow the 8020 rule, it's probably, you know, 20% of the people who provide you with 80% of meaning, of significance of content. So in, in my case, though, it really was important to create pillars. So I know there are five things that I talk about, and if it's outside of those five things, it's just not for me because I can't talk about everything, you know, I mean, so the four things is like, I talk about active learning, I talk about technology, I talk about media, and I talk about creating a sense of community and belonging in the classroom. The fifth one is self Care, because I believe, you know, everybody needs to share how they take good care of themselves. So those are the five things I talk about. Those are the five things on my channel that I'm going to. Does it fit in one of those five? And then of course there's like behind the scenes stuff and, and sharing tidbits.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:34:28

Like, and I'll be sharing about the wedding over the summer, but it will obviously be, you know, personal lifestyle things because it's a really big thing in my life.

Chris Stone [: 00:34:38

Yeah.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:34:38

But I'm making the connections. You know, I shared it with my students at the end of, I shared the news with the, my students at the end of May in, in May because I'm, I want to celebrate with them. I want them to know what I'm doing this summer that makes me a real person. And I cannot tell you how many students would say to me, I just love that we get to learn a little bit more about you outside of the content. And, and not everybody's going to want that. I'm sure if I surveyed all the students, they're like, I don't need to know anything about her life. I, not that I don't care, but I'm just focused on the content. But that's individual.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:35:15

But so many people value that. And I'm, I'm, I'm willing to be open about many things. Like, you know, my classes are not therapy. It's not my counseling that's separate. I talk to my counselor separately. But I'm, I'm a person. When things happen, I share it with them. And guess what? I teach public speaking.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:35:34

I'm going to be writing some vows. I'm going to be scared out of my mind. I have to process. Even though I'll get up on a stage to 2,000 people tomorrow and talk about active learning, talk about the science of memorability, no problem. You want to talk about habituation, you want to talk about engagement? I'm so there. I've got to now profess my love. The deepest, most beautiful love I felt. And I got to write some vows.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:35:57

Just thinking about it, I get crazy. So you think my students aren't going to be in that position one day? They're going to be nervous and scared out of mind writing emotional content. So I'm already thinking, man, I've got to document my journey because that's going to be important thing to share with my students and they're never going to forget it. Now, I don't fabricate events just to have emotional impact, but that's Another key point is we have to have to talk about emotions. And if I can share this screen, emotion is the on, off, switch for learning. And Dr. Allison Posey, she. She was a speaker at a recent.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:36:39

Just in May that I was on. I got a chance to meet her and have dinner. And she's an excellent educational neuroscientist. So I want to make sure I say this emotion is the on, off, switch for learning. And that is a quote from her. It's actually, let me put it so you guys can see the whole thing. There we go. I want to misquote that.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:36:57

But we have to think about this. And of course it's appropriate emotion. Do you know, like, it's. Again, it's. None of, none of this is counting. Unless your show is actually about counseling, then that's obviously a bit different. But we're. We're all still people.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:37:13

And in order for your content to be memorable, people have to feel that emotional connection to it, which means you have to feel an emotional connection to it, and you have to be willing to share your emotions. And then the other principle that I wanted to share with you is about meaning. And this is that students engage. Let me just move it over so we can see it better. Students engage when learning is relevant to their lives, identities and goals. And this is Dr. Tracy Addy, who is the director of the teaching institute at my university, whom I have a professional crush on her. She's amazing.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:37:48

She's wonderful. I love her. And, you know, these are the things that she talks about and she studies, she studies so many wonderful things from a student centered perspective. And so we have to think about both of these concepts, emotion in learning, as well as are we making this stuff relevant to our, to our people? Are we tying it back to the lives which you know, as hosts, guys, this is, this is partly your job too. It's my job to make sure I bring the content, but also for you to be like, how does what Tatiana is saying relate to our people? So bringing it, bringing back. It's no different being an educator than being a content creator because we're still dealing with people, we're dealing with topics. And we need to prepare good content, think about our audience and connect with them, keep them engaged. People are people, whether they're in my public speaking class or on your show.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:38:43

It. To me, it doesn't matter if they're 18 or 48. I mean, it matters. We're going to use different examples, right? Like I'll say to my students if I came, if I came to class, and all I did was talk about how important strengthening your muscles is when you're older in life. At my age, that doesn't connect with them. I mean, I can certainly say that once, but I need to be talking about what's life like at the end of your college years, what comes next? That's what they're interested in hearing. They're interested in hearing about their perspective, their lives, their meaning. So we have to continuously be making sure that we're doing that.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:39:20

And one of the ways that we can help our audience learn and remember is thinking about this concept of scaffolding. So, you know, you guys know what scaffolding is, right? In a building. So there's. There's scaffolding in education as well. And I want you guys to think about this for content. So everybody listening, ask yourself, is my content scaffolded? Meaning am I trying to give steps one through ten on one show? I want to encourage you to break it up. Step one, let that be one episode. Let step two be another episode.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:39:55

Let step three be different. So you scaffold it, which means you're putting in these tools in place so that you can safely rebuild the building. Right? Scaffolds are, are what they use in construction, during repairs, during renovation, during building. You put these things in for safety so that you can go one step at a time while we're doing this, then we get ready for this thing. So we need to do the same thing on our shows. Scaffold it. Plus, it also gives you more content. I think one of the mistakes we make as content in our classes, we break it up into a semester.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:40:29

I know I'm going to be with them 14 times for three hours every week. So we break it up and we plan it out. Okay, week one, I'm going to be teaching these lessons. I have this much time they need to get breaks. Week two, and I want to encourage you to think more like an educator in this regard by thinking, okay, episode one is going to be this. How does that relate to two? Because when I teach class number two, I'm also talking about class number one and how it connects. So scaffolding is going to be an important strategy for content creators to use that we use a lot in education. And one of the ways that becomes real in my class is their first big assignment is an audio podcast.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:41:11

I have them focus only on the voice. I want them to learn to think about team. They do it in small groups. So, like, the three of us would be a group. We've just been assigned to create a podcast and we get a broad topic, we get to narrow it down, we get to name our show, we get to create the graphics, we get to. And the reason it's scaffolded is I choose focus only on the audio, not on everything. There's no video, there's no non verbal communication. They're only focusing on the verbal side because that comes later.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:41:42

So we can do the same thing with our content creation. Let's think, okay, this part first, then I teach them something else and then they can do that part later. So I scaffold the assignments in class to build on each other. Just like a scaffold, right? It builds on each other, builds. It helps the workers build that building safely and have this great process to do that rather than overwhelming my students. In the beginning, you have to think about verbal communication technology, non verbal communication, thinking about your content, thinking about citing your sources, thinking about doing your research. Oh, and don't forget, you'll have to act like you're having fun. So there's all these different pieces.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:42:17

It's just too much to learn at once. Yeah, too much. And the, the benefit of scaffolding is too, it gives you so much content over time and you're not so overwhelmed because you know that comes later. I don't have to do everything right now. So I'm curious, what do you guys think about the concept of scaffolding your content? And I'm guessing you probably already do this because you build shows off the other where you tie them back as well.

Chris Stone [: 00:42:42

Well, for this show, this show's about as unscaffolded as if that's even a thing as possible. And the reason is, Tatiana is like we like to have interesting conversations with various people. We, we have a lane for sure. There's no doubt about it. It. But it's not like we're going to say, okay, we're going to do a 10 part series on how to do a video podcast. Now we could and that would be helpful for sure. But this show is about what you're seeing right here, which is, you know, having conversations with interesting people like Tatiana Rodriguez and you know, creating great content that can help those, those folks.

Chris Stone [: 00:43:23

Now the people that I work with at in at Cast ahead. Absolutely. In fact, that's what we do with one of is built. If you don't have a foundation and something that you can refer to on episode 10 and say, now you remember we talked about on episode seven, this, this and this and this. Don't Forget this, and you're pulling people back. It becomes this more evergreen thing. And I think it's important for. What you're talking about is if everybody tries to boil the ocean at once, learn how to do an entire video podcast and all the production and all of that stuff, Stuff, they're going to quit.

Chris Stone [: 00:44:03

It's not going to be something that's fun and nobody wants to hear or see someone who is not having fun doing it and trying to figure out, oh, my gosh, should I. Do I have eye contact? Am I looking at the chat? Am I doing all of these things? No, let's focus on something like this. This building block. And then I used to teach workshops.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:44:23

On Facebook at a community college, and I had to get them to agree to allow me to split it up, because, sure, I'd have three hours, but three hours was, like, not enough time. So I was like, look, we need to have, like, a beginner, intermediate, advanced workshops, multiple workshops, because to your point, you will overwhelm the person that's being taught. And then did they really get anything out of it? So it's like, give them small victories. And I think even as we start thinking about how we create content, whether, like, on substack, as I'm doing more, it's like, okay, if I'm going to teach people about how to stay away from the nose hairs, maybe the first thing is, like, the most important thing, right, that we all know in video is audio. So let's talk about audio first, and then we'll talk about the cameras. Then we'll talk about framing. And so those are all parts of that scaffold, I think.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:45:27

And. And you. You said something else, too. And I think it's. It's important for us. And because you guys are talking about the different. I would call them, like, Personas that show up online. And I have them, too.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:45:38

Sometimes. I have students, and I'm like, this is like, you need to show up. I need to see you. This is literally about speaking and you showing up. And I maybe I see this much of the person, or I call them sometimes fanboys, because all I see is that they're a fan moving in the back.

Chris Stone [: 00:45:55

Fan boys. I'm gonna use that.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:46:00

We're fangirls, you know, whatever.

Chris Stone [: 00:46:02

Cameras off. It's like all I see, they turn, they.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:46:04

They show no camera's on. Their cameras are on, but all I see is their fan. Because. And I understand you're on. Imagine you're on a laptop. You want to see this. You angle the screen. So that you can see it it not so that you can be seen.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:46:17

So I understand, like, and we talk about this, but it's like, guys, I need to actually see you. So it's a joke, you know, and it's a frustration. Like, I'm fortunate that my classes, I need to see you because that's part of the skill development, you know, but we have to be prepared to do things visually now. You know, I, I love eCamm. You guys are in the ECAMM community as well, so. So our, our tool of choice is ecamm, but there are other options. And, but when, when we ask questions of our audience, sometimes it's like it's really important that we show them, not just say things. So, for example, this is one way of asking visual questions that I.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:46:59

This is literally something I ask in my classes. Which one is most like you when thinking about delivering a speech? So if I were to say to you, you know, Jim and Chris, you're going to deliver a speech tomorrow on pick your topic. Let's go with co hosting and team chemistry. How is it that people can develop team chemistry as a team of two when they're co hosting a show? Is it one? Yeah. You're so excited. This is like your body's gonna be grooving to it. Two, are you a little more relaxed? It's kind of a it. It's a good experience for you.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:47:32

You're not too overly stressed. Is it like, I can take it or leave it? It's a bit meh for me personally. Or does it make you start dripping sweat? Like, oh, my gosh, panic mode is ensuing. Or are you at full 5? Where. Just kill me now. This feels like I'm in an ocean and I'm about to crash. I can't stand this. Let me know, guys.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:47:54

Are you 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5? And if we're all on zoom on camera, I'll have them, you know, I'll have this slide up and I'll say, show me with your hands one through five. Which one is you? You that gets their body participating or if they're in person, right? Show me with your hands one through five. You're a one. You're okay. You guys would be.

Chris Stone [: 00:48:14

So I'm number one. For those who are just listening on the audio podcast, if there was ever a show where you need to go to watch the video, this is the one. Because the visuals that Tatiana is sharing are amazing. Just the. The memes and the gifs alone are. Are worth you jumping over to to YouTube and absorbing, you know, and very nicely done. I didn't think you could get more intense than that. Key and Peele Gif.

Chris Stone [: 00:48:45

But you, but number five was, was, was super intense. That is, I mean, that is just killer to, to be able to do that, because that was. You actually answered. One of the questions that, that I was going to ask is like, you know, how do you get somebody over that precipice, you know, where, where they're just. And I'm absolutely nervous. But if you can just like hold up a finger or hold up five fingers or whatever you need to hold up in front of somebody, that's a nice little. That could be a monstrous step for some people, right?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:49:18

Definitely. And we have to remember people want to participate. Now in the world of YouTube, there are people who are in passive listening mode. And that's okay. If I'm driving, I need to be in passive listening mode. But most people, if they come to a live stream, they're, they're coming to participate. There will, there will always be some that are not. But you know, we have to be able to have people ready and willing to come and pay attention.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:49:47

We have to break patterns. Like, if you guys have heard other people talk about this, you know the concept, we need to interrupt the pattern so people don't get bored. So I'll switch it up in class like this, you know, I'll start writing on the screen, which I don't have great handwriting, but it's. There's something soothing about drawing on a screen and having people listen to you and understand different concepts like this. It's a little bit different. I mean, back in our day, wow, PowerPoint, like, this is magic. Now it's like, kill me now. Another PowerPoint.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:50:20

I can't, I can't take this. I can't stand this. So we need to be continuously evolving and using the tools at our disposal, and not just for the entertainment factor. Because to be honest with you, if you share great stories, and I know that you've had other guests talk about this content before, and we talk about it in my classes as well. The power of a great story. The power of emotion, the power of connection. Honestly, all this beautiful technology can go away if you have a person who really cares and is great at telling a story and asks you question. But the key thing is that people can't just be in passive mode in your audience.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:51:00

We have to switch it to active learning mode mode because people don't join a team to sit on the bench. You know, people want to be participating when I join live streams. And they, people say, oh look, hey, Tatiana, thanks for being here like you guys did in the beginning. You gave some shout outs, you said some names. People enjoy that and they feel seen, they feel heard, and that feels very nice to be acknowledged. So want to make sure that in your live streams, in your content, even if, if, you know, think about the people who are going to be watching later, think one time in the show so far I've said to everybody listening, we can say things like that, we can say things like, hey, you know, whether you're listening in your car or you're here in the live stream now or you're watching this later, thank you for your time. Thank you for your attention. I hope that this has served you in some way.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:51:48

Like, think about all the people who are here, you as the guest, the co hosts that invited you, you, the people who are watching it live on whatever platforms and acknowledge that and then also the people who could be watching this in the future. So want to make sure that we're giving them prompts, giving them cues. Listen to this question. You know, wherever you are right now, stop and think about your own show. What's one thing that you heard today that you can implement right away? Think about that for a few seconds. Pause, pause the recording. If you need to like, talk to them directly, it just helps make that experience feel real to them rather than like, okay, I'm just a bystander paying.

Chris Stone [: 00:52:33

Attention to something much more participatory as opposed to just, you know, spectating. And yeah, it's absolutely, it's, it's so important. It's like. And so it's so difficult to do. It really is. It's not. I know for you, you've been doing it for, for a while, but it is, it is incredibly difficult to get people kind of get, get, come on, you know, like, you know, it's like pulling somebody out of their seat to, to come up and join you on stage. A lot of times some people are just not into it.

Chris Stone [: 00:53:07

And, and so I think these are some really tactical ways of, of being able to do that. And I know this guy. It's got my squirrel brain heated up and, and trying to figure out how to get, get, you know, that, you know, that passive listener, that passive viewer to be, you know, involved a little bit more. I know Stream Alive is, is going to be in the stack soon. Jim and I kind of talked about how we're, how we're going to do that. We've been We've been toying around with that, and I know you got a lot of. You got a lot of fun tools to talk about, none of which we were able to get to today. Which is.

Chris Stone [: 00:53:41

Which is. We've got. We've got somebody that wants to know where you're from. This is Lena, and I'm not sure, Lena, who you're. Who you're talking about, but I, you know, we're just all going to tell you where we're from. Tatiana, Ladies first.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:53:59

Okay. Well, I was raised in New Jersey. Now I live in Pennsylvania, so the east coast of the United States.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:54:04

Wow.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:54:05

But I was actually born in Costa.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:54:06

Rica, so.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:54:13

Remember that.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:54:13

For future trivia, I grew up in Virginia, and then I now live, after a Marine Corps career, all over the world. I now live in Marietta, Georgia, so not too far from you.

Chris Stone [: 00:54:32

I am from Detroit, Michigan, and I moved to Nashville to go to college, and now I reside in Atlanta, Georgia. And Laina, we. I believe that's a heart, a rose. I hope it is. My vision might be a rose. Oh, it's a rose. Okay. Okay.

Chris Stone [: 00:54:52

I don't know what the kids are doing now with these emojis, but in any event, Tatiana, this has been amazing. I have one last question for you that I'm dying to ask you. So if there is someone that's listening right now or watching right now, it might be Lena, it might be Katie, it might be Matthew, it might be whomever. And they're absolutely terrified to hit record and record a video right now. And it could be for anything. It could be for a project, it could be for a podcast. They know they need to, but they're absolutely terrified. What is, like the first baby step that you would recommend that that person.

Chris Stone [: 00:55:32

Do you know, that would. That would help them with that first video?

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:55:40

The first thing that I talk about in my class is, well, you know, just because we're. We're. I know we don't have tons of time to spend on this, but I would also recommend you check out the other conversations I've had where I talk about fear extensively and what to do. I mean, if you go to my YouTube channel and you go to guest appearances, I have talked extensively about fear. Like, you can listen to all that. So just. Just plugging that as an additional resource. But the very first step is to be very compassionate with yourself about experiencing it, because it's completely, completely normal to feel fearful.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:56:17

However, we quickly have to step away from the place of thinking of fear as something that has to hold you back because people, my students always say, I. What do you want to ask them what they want? They want to be more confident. Everybody wants to be more confident. The number one thing people, students want when they're in my classes, and that will happen. But what I, the, the myth I try to dispel very quickly is that fear is not the opposite of confidence. It's not like I'm going to get rid of my fear, and now I'm confident. That's not how it works. I feel fear.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:56:54

I don't let that stop me. I take action anyway, and that's, that's how I get confidence. It's not being. It's not the absence of fear. It's taking action even when I'm afraid. That's how we build confidence. Right. And I have to be very honest.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:57:12

The fear may never go away, but it doesn't have to stop you. It just does not have to stop you. I think the, the big mistake we think is I'm afraid, so I can't do it. It's like, no, you're afraid because you're a human being. You're afraid because you care about what you do. You're afraid because you're not sure about the technology. Clear on the reasons for the fear is important. I will bet money it's probably because you have a fear of being judged negatively, like we all do, because we don't have a fear of being judged.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:57:42

Because when somebody likes us, that's still a judgment.

Chris Stone [: 00:57:44

Yeah.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:57:45

It's just not a negative one. Right. So. Oh, yeah, please judge me positively. Like my stuff.

Chris Stone [: 00:57:51

You're right.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:57:51

But, but keeping in mind that fear, Fear is, is not the obstacle, it's information.

Chris Stone [: 00:58:02

Yeah.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:58:03

Fear gives us information, and we can identify what those fears are. We can use, like, Tim Ferriss's method of. Okay, so if that were to happen, what would I do? Okay, so my worst fear is that I'll make a mistake and I'll freeze. I'll. I'll blank out. I won't know what to say. Okay, so let's talk about that. That.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:58:24

What are some things we can do if we blank out? What are some things we can do if we make a mistake? And then, of course, I, you know, once we get to the logical place of it, people understand the things that we fear are simply not going to. Not going to happen. I mean, you know, I talk about some of my content about an emotional hijacking that happens, and that's when we feel afraid. When we feel angry, we feel sad. You know, like our Our mind looks like me in this picture. It's like it thinks we're going to be, be devoured, attacked or that. And it's just, it's just not the truth. That's just not the way that it things work.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:59:01

You know, we will have this inner critic that wants to be horrible to us or we're horrible to ourselves. And that's just not the way that it works. So it's, it's important to understand that we feel before we think because of the way information hits our brain. So you know, this is just a few tidbits for you to think about. There's logic behind it, there's science behind it. But we are not powerless against this, this stuff. We have the ability to stop, hold that thought captive and, and think about it because we are not our thoughts. There's a famous quote, and I say this all the time because I, I love it and it's so powerful.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 00:59:42

I, I think it was Albert Einstein, but I'm not 100% sure. And the quote is something along the lines of it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain someone else's thought without making it your own own. So we can have the see these things, hear these things, get some feedback and be like my favorite thing to do is say is this truth or is this trash? Truth or trash truth. If the answer is truth, I need to do something about it. There, there's, even if there's partial truth to it, sometimes feedback from a student might be a little hard to hear, but their experience is valid and I need to work on that. You know. Yeah, I think the assignment instructions could have been a little clearer on that. That's kind of a vague or a beginner wouldn't understand this as well as I think Sometimes the comment is not fair.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:00:28

Sometimes the comment is no, that is, that is trash. That is straight up trash. I have to understand that my brain processes it a certain way. But that is not true. I have never been disrespectful to a student. That is just straight up trash. That's somebody who's pissed off at me for a different reason.

Chris Stone [: 01:00:44

Yeah.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:00:45

You know, just, just or whatever the scenario is. So, so those are some of my tips to start working on those fear based thinking.

Chris Stone [: 01:00:53

Never before on dealcasters have I ever an asked one question and got an entire master class as an answer that was. And by the way, I think Truth or Trash needs to be a game show like right now. And oh I actually I, yeah.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:01:13

And I agree with you and I have made it a part of. I don't know if I have it in a place where I could find it super quickly, but I have made graphics that accompany the truth or trash concept. But we'll save that for another time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Stone [: 01:01:31

This has been amazing. Tatiana. Absolutely smashed expectations. We knew this was going to be an awesome show. But thank you so much for making our show better, taking the time and delivering. Delivering amazing. I know I've got a ton out of this. This is one of those ones, Jim, where I'm gonna have to.

Chris Stone [: 01:01:50

I'm gonna have to go back, transcribe, watch and listen again. So. Oh, wait, I have to edit this. So, yeah, I get to do that anyway. But, you know, maybe a little more active listening than just. There's difference, Tatiana, between active listening and edit listening. You know, it's. It's sort of.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:02:09

You know, I do a lot of my own editing, so. I feel you.

Chris Stone [: 01:02:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But honestly, thank you so much for, for this, Tatiana. We. We absolutely appreciate you. You joining and of course, congratulations to you and Ben.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:02:23

Thank you. I really appreciate that. And if I can say a summary point here is that we're. We're not just sharing information, we're not just teaching, we're not just entertaining. We are designing memorable experiences. So think of it that way way. Design memorable experiences, make them relevant to your audience because they will remember it. They'll be interested in it if it's relevant.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:02:48

And then if you establish emotional connections that will have meaning for them. And also remember to enjoy. This needs to be fun for both us in the lead as the pilots of the plane, as well as for the people in the seats. And, you know, we have a really good example with Jim and Chris and their interaction. We can see the fun, we can see the banter, we can see the joy that makes it enjoyable to watch. And so I only wish I was funnier, guys and that we could do a little trio. Unfortunately, I'm just not that funny. I appreciate humor in other people very much.

Chris Stone [: 01:03:26

I'm funny looking. But you, you are absolutely funny and you are awesome. Thank you so much, Tatiana. And for. For those of you who are still watching, including Neil Faramond, thank you for joining us here at the last minute. Go back, go back to replay, my friend. I'm kidding. And for everyone else, he's a great guy.

Chris Stone [: 01:03:44

Yes, he is. Absolutely.

Tatiana Rodriguez [: 01:03:45

Thank you, everybody.

Chris Stone [: 01:03:46

Thank you. And as always, don't fear the gear.

Jim Fuhs [: 01:03:51

Thanks for listening to dealcasters. Congratulations. You've taken another step forward in your content creation journey, please don't forget to hit the subscribe or Follow button here in your favorite podcast player so you can be reminded every time we drop an episode.

Chris Stone [: 01:04:08

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Jim Fuhs [: 01:04:28

If you have questions about this episode or have something you want us to review, you can also email us at dealcastersealcasters Live. Thanks again for listening and you know the deal. Don't fear the gear.