Why Perfect Video Quality Is Ruining Authentic Connection: Eden Liu

Chris Stone [: 00:00:01

On today's show, we've got someone who's mastered the art of making smartphone video look better than most people's expensive studio setups. And she's built communities that actually solve problems instead of just collecting followers. Please welcome to Dealcaster, someone who's about to flip everything you think you know about professional video content. One of our favorite creators on the planet Eden Pikachu. Lou, what is up? It's about time. I'm loving this.

Eden Liu [: 00:00:31

Hey, guys, thank you so much for having me, man. I'm so glad to see Saeed Brusco, Dr. Hicks in the chat. And it's. Y' all know I said when I was promoting this show, I said, this is my debut appearance. Y' all know what that means, right? I'm not planning to come on this show just once. This just means this is my first time coming on the show.

Chris Stone [: 00:00:49

Let's go.

Eden Liu [: 00:00:50

I've been learning so much from y'. All. I'm excited to finally get to chop it up with you guys live on Dealcasters.

Chris Stone [: 00:00:57

That's what's up. I. You know, James, James wants you to talk about basketball and K pop. This, you know, it's just inevitable. It's in our DNA. It's just gonna come out, James. So just be patient. Just chill, man.

Chris Stone [: 00:01:08

Just, you know, I know you're back from Africa and you just. You. You want to get fed here by Pikachu, Lou. But, you know, we'll. We'll get to your K pop. We'll get to your basketball at least.

Eden Liu [: 00:01:18

Like three basketball references in the pre show. At least.

Chris Stone [: 00:01:21

That's true. And that's a sign of things to come. I think there's going to be, you know, more and more alley oops as the show goes along. See, I can.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:01:29

Can we rebound from this?

Eden Liu [: 00:01:30

Can't turn it on. Oh.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:01:35

There it is.

Eden Liu [: 00:01:36

That's the playground, too. Sorry, I have to do it.

Chris Stone [: 00:01:40

Eden. We don't normally do this. We don't normally bring out because it's kind of a typical podcast trope to bring on a guest and say, tell us about yourself or tell us about your journey or anything like that. We don't normally ask for origin stories, but you, my friend, is one that I not only find incredibly interesting, but I believe our audience would be really inspired by it. And I know you brought your fan club and they've probably heard your origin story, but it's just so good. And I think there's a lot of people that might are creators or want to be creators, let's say. And they're just kind of lurking and they don't. Not only do they get stuck in terms of how do I do this, how do I do that, but your story is.

Chris Stone [: 00:02:33

I don't know, your journey kind of began by accident, didn't it?

Eden Liu [: 00:02:37

A hundred percent by accident. And even today, things are happening. It feels like everything that happens to me, every opportunity I get, kind of feels like an accident. But I'm happy to share because just like you said, I was someone that never thought I was ever going to be in front of the camera, in front of a mic. I never thought of myself as a content creator. I was just someone that consumed content and likes to provide my own commentary on it. So let's go like all the way back to when basketball Twitter. Basketball Twitter was a thing.

Eden Liu [: 00:03:09

In, like the mid 2010s, there was this basketball podcast on ESPN, true podcast, and then it was like the NBA basketball podcast on ESPN that I was just in love with listening because I thought that the. It was like a podcast that usually had like three or four people on it at the same time. It wasn't just your typical two people talking with one, like a guest being interviewed every time. And that show dynamic I just fell in love with in seeing the people interact with each other. And I. It was a show so good at that point. And also that's. That's what I just first found podcast.

Eden Liu [: 00:03:46

So let's be real, I was listening to like 5,000 podcasts, but this was the one that I was like, oh, this podcast is so good that I feel the need to tweet about it. And so I just started to sort of like, share my side commentary about, like, this week's show. Like, Ethan, Sherwood, Strauss and Amina had this really funny back and forth, and I would just. My Twitter feed kind of became sort of like a side commentary for their show. And it's been going on for probably at least a year. When I get a DM one day from the producer of the show and he's like, shouts to Jade Hoy. He's the person that found me and gave me my first content opportunity. And he was just like, oh, you really like the show? Would you be cool with, like, just hopping on a call with me? I just want to, like, ask a couple of questions, like, about the show.

Eden Liu [: 00:04:37

Get your, like, feedback. This was my first experience in feeling, I guess, community marketing. This was community marketing before community marketing was a thing. Yeah, I was a part of their listening community. I'm pretty sure the term community marketing didn't exist in. Back then. Don't, don't look that up. But, but I'm pretty sure I thought it was insane that the producer of the show that I listened to reached out to me for one, because.

Chris Stone [: 00:05:02

How nervous were you?

Eden Liu [: 00:05:05

I was like, so nervous. I had no idea what I was going to say. I was like, do I need to prep notes? And he was just like, yo, we're just, this is totally unserious, Very chill. I just wanted to, you know, you clearly are very passionate about the show and I would love to get some of your thoughts on. We hopped on a call and he was like, yo, like, ask me a bunch of questions about the show. I answered them just quite naturally. He was someone, he is someone that's very good at making you feel comfortable on a cold call, essentially. And at the end of that call, he's like, oh, yeah.

Eden Liu [: 00:05:37

So you also know about our Friday Mailbag show where we sometimes have guests on, right? And I'm like, yeah, of course. It's like one of the funniest shows ever. It's like, just take Friday Mailbag. You listen, take listener questions, very unserious, and make it part of the show. That's also how you engage a community, I feel is like by gathering listener questions and making a whole show out of it. I still do that show to this day, by the way. Eight years later, I'm still doing the Friday Mailbag with the guys that I started out with.

Chris Stone [: 00:06:06

Nice.

Eden Liu [: 00:06:07

And when he asked me to come on the show, I was like, what, what, what, what do you mean by that? Like, and he was like, you know, the show, like, come on the show as a guest. And I'm like, I, I, I, I'm not anybody though. I, I don't. What, what right do I have to come on this show at this. Which at this point was part of ESPN's network of podcasts.

Chris Stone [: 00:06:29

Yep.

Eden Liu [: 00:06:31

So naturally I way over prepared because I was insanely nervous. Of course I said yes, though. Like, I'm not gonna say no. Like, who says no to a chance to appear on their favorite show? That's insane. And keep in mind, you guys, this is before I had ever done any content before. We were talking in the pre show. You're like, oh, you've done this a zillion times. I had done this zero times at this point.

Eden Liu [: 00:06:55

Zero times. So if y' all remember the first time you guys ever did a recording or anything like that feeling, my first time wasn't something that I was in control of that I put out myself. I was joining a show with a massive following that I, I was on with. These are guys that I listen to, I look up to as like I go to them for their basketball tanks. These are guys that are on espn, CBS Sports, they're on Sirius fm, NBA Sports Radio. And I go on there and I apparently had an okay first appearance because a few times later they asked me to come on as a guest again. And a few months after that I became a regular on the show. And it's just so insane to even think about my origin story.

Eden Liu [: 00:07:44

I know you said it's just such a tropey thing, but I do love sharing it because I think so many of, not so many of us, all of us are content consumers at this point. We all watch a show, we all listen to podcasts, we all have live stream creators that we follow or just even content creators that don't do live content. We all consume content. And I don't, not all of us think that we're cut out for it. But like, look at me eight years later. I have my own show, my own live streams. I have my own content that I create. My personal K Pop content.

Eden Liu [: 00:08:18

Shout out to James. He knows that. My secret burner account. Not so secret. Whatever. I do the stuff for work. I'm still doing the Friday mailbag on the show that I started out at. And I love content collabs.

Eden Liu [: 00:08:30

As you guys know. I've go on every show that I any, anyone that asked me for a collab. I'm like, yes, let's do it. Because I just like love talking about content and everyone's different experiences and different perspectives that come with it. Like, we all have a different, different process and a different journey to how we got here. And everyone's process is different. I think that's actually one of. I know it's kind of like meta to be like, oh, it's content talking about doing content.

Eden Liu [: 00:08:58

But it's, it's really interesting to hear like other people's workflows, what tools people are using, or even like how people approach a rundown. Like, I love Yalls trailer. Like, which I've seen before. But I think like seeing it backstage is also just like, man, I need to, like, I need to come up with something like that. Like, I love getting ideas from other people and I love like just incorporating. I guess in a lot of ways all of us are amalgamations of all of the content that we can do. So that's, that's sort of like the, the short version of it. Happy to dive Further into any particular part, if you have any specific questions.

Chris Stone [: 00:09:34

Yeah, I think it's. I think it's really interesting. And I think you and I have. Have gone back and forth online about this as well. Is that. And you touched on it, is that, you know, we're amalgamations of. Of influences. Right.

Chris Stone [: 00:09:48

And so, you know, I'm not trying and you're not trying to be a carbon copy of. Of something else. I'm dating myself. I'm talking about carbon copies. You know, I be a copy of an NFT of something else.

Eden Liu [: 00:10:01

Oh, there we go.

Chris Stone [: 00:10:03

Yeah, right. Let's at least get back in the 2000s. And so you get these influences and then you become something that is yourself, that has your stamp on it that you can confidently say, hey, I got influences from Pat Flynn, and I got influences from some. But you and I have talked about this and I know you're open to this is get influence from people outside of your space. Right. And I think you touched on that as well, is like, hey, this person is not necessarily what would be considered a podcaster or a live streamer, but there's something about what they do that I can learn from them. Is there other people outside of this space that you've learned things from?

Eden Liu [: 00:10:50

Yeah, so many. Like, wow. Like, I just feel like super ADD also. So, like, my brain is just like all over the place trying to think of like, all of my influences.

Chris Stone [: 00:10:59

Welcome to the club. I mean, I'm here as well with that.

Eden Liu [: 00:11:02

Since. Since James Hicks said he wanted to hear about K Pop, I'll talk a little bit about K Pop. So some of the first live streams that I consumed that weren't podcasts are the. The live streams of my favorite K Pop artists that they do. They're often solo streams. They are in their room, and usually they're. When they're on tour, they're just like, in their room. They don't have anything else to do, and they just get on a stream and they start sharing little things about their day.

Eden Liu [: 00:11:30

They read a lot of comments. There's often a lot of comfortable silence that they are able to foster just by their presence and how they're presenting themselves on video, reading comments, engaging with comments, or sharing about what they did that day, what they ate. And I really channeled that for my first solo livestream, if I'm being honest, like for work, my first office hours, I'm like, oh, my God, what if nobody shows up? And then I just think about the fact that, you know, of course, all of my K Pop artists that I follow have tons of people showing up to their live streams, but I actually often watch their livestreams without the comments because they're too distracting to me personally. So when I'm viewing it, I'm not watching all the comments, like, fly through the screen. And I just sort of channeled, like, I just remember thinking of like, you know, bts RM or Jungkook or Jimin. Like, they have like, such calming presences on their live streams where they can just slowly read a comment here, talk about what they ate for lunch or, oh, they watched this movie. And Namjoon will share about a book that he read. And it helped me stay grounded in being like, oh, I don't need to fill every moment of silence.

Eden Liu [: 00:12:45

Because starting my podcast journey with sports radio guys, we did not do silence. Silence was a big no, no. We recorded every podcast. They were edited, but we did not do silence. Like, silence was not allowed. Like, there was not one second of dead air in the first, like, three years that I did podcast with them for. Because they're sports radio guys. It's on.

Eden Liu [: 00:13:09

You know, when you turn on the radio, you cannot tune to 5:60am FM and have it be silenced because then someone's going to turn it off. So I had it in my head, you know, my training, my entire content training was with sports radio guys, where I'm like, I need to fill every second of silence that I can. And you know what? I'm actually really good at it. That's right, Saeed. I'm very good at filling silence. I'm the silence filler at meetings, at Reincubate. Everyone knows that if there's silence, silence in a meeting, give it a second, and Eden is going to fill it. Because I treat every meeting like it's a live show, if I'm being honest, because it's.

Eden Liu [: 00:13:46

It's part of. It's become part of who I am eight years later. But sometimes creating separation between my past experiences and this completely basketball K Pop. How many crossover fans are there? Not that many, I can tell you that. So I would just be like, oh, I don't have to be sports radio right now. I can just be Namjoon in his studio reading a book and. And sharing a few takes about it here and there and occasionally checking in on the comments. Like, the different types of content that I consumed that influenced me really helped me find my own balance in the different types of content that I do.

Eden Liu [: 00:14:25

Because I also host shows with people. And I think that my sports radio, I call it My sports radio training prepared me really well for that. In being able to come up with a reaction for anything that someone said, it's not always a meaningful reaction. I'm not always saying anything. In fact, I'm actually really good at talking for a really long time and maybe not even actually making a point, but because of how it's delivered, it still sounds compelling anyway. So I hope that kind of answered the question about me sort of taking my different influences from the different types of content that I create in helping it shape my own content and what type of vibes that I'm trying to deliver. Every time I show up, it does.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:15:08

So, Eden, Eden, this really, to me, brings up a good point. Something you just said that I think kind of feeds into what we were talking about with, like, not being perfect is the fact that when you're doing a live show, like we're doing right now, you're not able to script everything. And I think sometimes these people that are wanting to get into content creation or too afraid to just, like, say what's on your mind. Take that first take. How did you kind of overcome that? I guess you could say that fear of, like, oh, my gosh, what if I don't know what to say?

Eden Liu [: 00:15:45

I'm gonna be honest. Like, and this is not a great response, but it came from a lot of reps. It came from being on a show with five, six, sometimes seven other people. I think at one of our craziest shows, we had up to nine people on the show at the same time. I have a more, especially in the beginning, had a very reserved personality. I would let everyone else do the talking. It would almost be hard for me to get a take in. And I learned at some point if I wanted to get my take in, I had to just jump in and take it, you know, and if there was a point I really wanted to make, I would jump in and take it.

Eden Liu [: 00:16:21

But often I just sat back and watched and listen to what other people said. And those reps of all the shows where maybe I only got in two or three lines, two or three sentences, two or three things that I wanted to say. Just, like, being sort of in the backseat for those situations taught me a lot in how, like, watching other people, especially, these are. These are professionals. These are guys that do sports radio. They take callers. They have no idea what questions are going to be thrown at them. Like, being on a show with them and also consuming that type of content, like, really helped me just sort of realize that you have to be prepared for anything.

Eden Liu [: 00:17:01

And also, I'm not gonna lie, the getting good at not saying anything while saying things is. Is. Is kind of a skill that I jokingly am very proud of, because sometimes people don't even realize that I'm not saying anything. But I got a response like the earlier we in the pre show, we're talking about gotchas. I know we're not going to have any gotchas on the show, but I was like, even if you did have a gotcha for me, you think I wouldn't BS my way through it? Because I would.

Chris Stone [: 00:17:27

Yeah.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:17:28

Would you say that in a sense, improv?

Eden Liu [: 00:17:31

Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely improv vibes. Sorry, was I supposed to say yes? And I think yes and or no.

Chris Stone [: 00:17:40

But.

Eden Liu [: 00:17:44

No, it really is. It's. It's improv skills. And that's why they're improv classes, though. You go to improv class to practice these skills of bouncing off of each other. And one thing I do want to share is something that I learned is that sometimes when a question is thrown at you, it's okay if you don't know how to respond to it. You can take that question as a lead to where you want it to go. You can say, listen, that's a great question, and not even address it and just go onto the point that you want to say.

Eden Liu [: 00:18:16

I don't know if that's like good, good practice for every show you do, but sometimes when you're in a pinch, it's a good sort of like, side tactic to get in a good point, even if you feel like you aren't quite ready to respond to that question. And often by the time I've delivered my side point, I've been able to process the actual question and then be like, oh, yeah, but your actual question was this. And now I have a response for it. So it is in a sense, like buying time and then formulating an actual response before actually delivering it. So, yeah, improv or like, sort of like interview tactics. I guess it's in the same vein, I guess.

Chris Stone [: 00:18:55

Yeah, I think it's smart to do that for a couple of reasons. It's the person. Let's just say somebody's in the chat. Like Saeed here is talking about talking and chatting at the same time, is that person's being recognized.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:19:11

Right.

Chris Stone [: 00:19:12

You're identifying them. If they're on the show and you're mentioning their name or you're responding to what they're saying or whatever. There is that dopamine or whatever you want to call it. I See you. I hear you, and I'm identifying it, and there's nothing wrong with you just kind of moving on and then gathering your thoughts and addressing it later when you can kind of, you know, do that. Because there's a lot of spinning plates when we're doing this. But also it's being honest. Like, there's been shows where we've done and somebody will ask a question and it's related to a piece of gear or whatever, and we don't really know.

Chris Stone [: 00:19:51

And so sometimes we just figure it out with people and there's, you know, people appreciate that. You know, it's sort of like, yeah, they could have Googled it themselves or whatever, maybe. But it's like, hey, let's figure this out together. I don't really know. And people are like, aren't you the expert? And, like, not on everything. I didn't know that. You know, like, why not just be honest about it? And I think that gains trust as well, don't you think?

Eden Liu [: 00:20:12

It definitely does. I mean, I can share an anecdote from just like a recent live stream that I did, an office Hours show where someone in the chat had asked me about a specific piece of software. And I was like, bro, I've never heard of that piece of software. I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you. I don't know that specific one that you. You mentioned, but I will. I have taken that note and I'm going to look it up later and try to share something in the next show. And they were like, oh, that's really cool that you.

Eden Liu [: 00:20:41

At least you didn't just ignore my question because you didn't know the answer. You acknowledged it and gave your honest take, which was that you didn't know and that you said you would look into it. And that's. That was. They. They kept coming and they're like, yo, thank you for just. Thank you for not ignoring me for one. And thank you for just saying you'll have to get back to it later.

Eden Liu [: 00:21:02

Like, I think that's sort of the underrated part, which I really loved. Like, the show concept that you guys wanted to do was about. It doesn't have to be perfect. Like, you're not going to know the answer to every single question, especially us in tech. Like, when I'm hosting office hours, I know it's a dice roll. I have accidentally demoed bugs on office hours before. Does my boss like that? No. But guess what? I didn't put that bug.

Eden Liu [: 00:21:26

I didn't put that bug in that software. So so, you know, it's about being able to roll with the punches and just fire the software back up. Be like, yo, I think I found a bug. I'm going to have to report that to the dev team and people. That resonates with people. And honestly, it creates a lot of engagement. People think it's funny and people think it gives it a more like very real feeling that they're just hanging out with you, that it's not just you presenting to them as if they were, you know, at a work conference. It's.

Eden Liu [: 00:21:58

They're engaging with you in real time and you're looking at stuff and laughing together at, at the bugs that may or may not pop up on live demos sometimes.

Chris Stone [: 00:22:08

It's true. I've watched Office Hours before and. And you know, we should probably roll into talking about this. Jim and I are fans of camo and we both subscribe to it, so this is not some sort of paid endorsement. But you know, like, honestly, that thing completely changed how we do content, how we do the show, how we go live on Amazon. I recorded six before I left for vacation. So this would be two weeks ago. I recorded six product videos for another channel that we do.

Chris Stone [: 00:22:43

And I needed something different, right? I needed a different camera setup for what I have so it doesn't look like dealcasters, for instance. And plus, I just wanted to like, you know, kind of change it up a little bit, right? And I was like, let me do an angle that looks like a reaction video. And the way I have this set up, you can see I've got the solo look here. And you know, I'm trying to be inclusive to our audio only listeners here, but, you know, and I've got an overhead camera that shoots down on my desk so I can show products, right? And typically that's what I've got. Got the one shot, but I want a reaction style, so. And I didn't want to move my setup with my big DSLR camera. And I'm sitting here going, how am I going to do this without it being so much trouble? And I'm like, duh, I've got camo, right? So I just hooked up my phone. I just hooked it up.

Chris Stone [: 00:23:34

And I've done it before when I needed a shot of my Rodecaster screen or I needed to do whatever. I just flip that thing on, scan the QR code in the software, and boom, I'm off and running. It is so simple, folks. I'm not going to. I'm going to let Eden do the description of camo but, you know, it feels a little more authentic coming from me because I'm, you know, I'm doing the dumb guy describing how he uses it. I know there's more uses than that, but I just, I love it. It's clean. The other thing I love about it is.

Chris Stone [: 00:24:02

Always works for me. I know you just talked about bugs. Every software piece of software has them. I haven't run into anything where it's crashed. It works perfectly for me every single time when somebody goes, hey, what's that light that you've got behind you that's shooting the things up on there? I grab my phone, I scan the QR code, and I walk back there with my phone and I said, here it is. Here's. Here's what it looks like. And it's right there on my screen.

Chris Stone [: 00:24:26

And it's such a. The concept is pretty, you know, sort of simple, right? But, you know, look, for those of you who are listening on audio, she's just like, can we record this for a testimonial? But Eden, tell us. Tell our listener, Tell our listeners and our viewers what makes Camo special.

Eden Liu [: 00:24:51

No, I'm definitely clipping all of that to repurpose later because you really did do a great job of explaining some of the great use cases for it. Camo helped you get amazing video from any camera you can connect to your computer. But as Chris was mentioning with the phone is actually where I feel like a lot of the magic happens. The ability to go wireless is. Just opens up so many possibilities. Like, I'm not going to do it right now, but if I wanted to show you guys the insane nest of wires underneath my desk, I could do that wirelessly. But I can't do that with my, like a DSLR setup where everything has to be perfectly mounted. It's heavy.

Eden Liu [: 00:25:32

It's. It's difficult to get leveled perfectly every time, but when it's, you know, it's a camera. There's so many different phone mounts on Amazon these days that it's. You can really find the perfect one for your setup. Camo has a bunch of a zillion image adjustments to help you get your color and your lighting dialed exactly in the way you want. We have easy overlays for you to add text, shapes and images. We have our spotlight feature. We have some really cool features, especially like our portrait.

Eden Liu [: 00:26:04

Our segmentation features that are. We call our enhancement features, where it's like our portrait mode gives you that nice bokeh background blur that you can really usually only get with the DSLR camera setup. Not everyone has a DSLR camera or wants to deal with one because when I upgraded to a dslr, I'm not gonna lie, I cried for weeks because of the settings, just trying to figure them out. And why am I always out of focus? I have on autofocus, but I'm still always out of focus. The learning curve is pretty high for a lot of the nicer cameras and I really love to tell people that. So many people wait on the tech to be perfect for the perfect video setup, the perfect camera, that super expensive looking camera setup that has a huge learning curve before they actually start doing content. But honestly, you can start with what you have and camo will help you look a lot better with anything that you already have. So that's really the elevator pitch.

Eden Liu [: 00:27:05

And Chris, I really love that you mentioned some of your use cases for it because a lot of people that are like, oh, well, I already have a really nice camera set up. Why would I use camera? And I'm like, okay, well have you heard of like a secondary shot or a tertiary shot? Like, it's, it's. We can, we, we all would love another camera angle, especially one that's easy to set up and wireless and that you can add text to and that you can adjust easily. You can zoom and pan. You know, it's. I just, I just think that there's so many different ways that you can use it. I always like to shout out Mary Lou Mandela, who she has a camo wirelessly set up for a lot of her live streams for her cat cam. I'm just like, people love cats.

Eden Liu [: 00:27:45

She can chase around Gizmo. She can chase around Gizmo with the wireless camera that you would otherwise need an action camera for that. Action cameras also sometimes are a little bit trickier to connect to be able to use for live video. Action cameras are often great for recording. But to get that live feed, honestly. And the thing is with phones also, we're so used to having them in our hands, it feels natural to use it. It feels intuitive. So yeah, honestly, Chris, you're way better at this selling camel thing than I am.

Eden Liu [: 00:28:16

I'm.

Chris Stone [: 00:28:17

That is not true. You know it. You're just being.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:28:19

I will tell you for, for me, Eden, I, I prefer camo over, you know, continuity camera, which I think you can never depend on. Sorry, Apple, that's just how I feel. You, you're not going to convince me of that.

Chris Stone [: 00:28:32

That's facts.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:28:33

But the, but the other thing is where I think when we talk about beginning if you want to call it creators, people that are getting starts like, look, you've got this phone, you can get camo and now you have the ability to use your back cameras. Look amazing. Know what you look like with those back cameras? If you're going to travel, do you just need a tripod and your camera and that's it right now. You don't have to sit there and travel with the dslr. In fact, Chris knows I'm actually using an Insta link as my main camera now. I'm not. I used to use a Sony, but it's like, do we really. Like we were talking earlier, do we need to be in 4k or 8k? Most of these platforms don't do that anyway.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:29:13

But there's so many amazing features. I mean, even what you guys are doing on tablets with, with some of your. Your products that you're doing there, I haven't played enough with that. I do have a question, though. Are you. And maybe it's there. I just haven't figured it out. Is there a way to attach to cameras with camo to one device?

Eden Liu [: 00:29:35

So at this very second in time? No, but. But it's like you have like a esp.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:29:45

I have a vision. Have a vision.

Eden Liu [: 00:29:48

Yeah. We may or may not can neither confirm nor deny whether there is an update coming out with that feature that is available to use in like the very near future. Like, that would be next week. I. I can't confirm or deny whether it could. It's next week or not. I don't know. I don't know.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:30:10

Okay, well, if that, if that happened, that would be amazing because I'm. I'm the guy that when I lose. When I get done with a iPhone and upgrade, I keep them so I have like multiple phones and then I could have, you know, you could see the back of my head camera. You know, that would be my new thing, Chris. Right?

Eden Liu [: 00:30:31

Yeah.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:30:31

No, I'm bald. Or not back there.

Eden Liu [: 00:30:33

That we hang tight, keep an eye out for for updates from us because we have something cooking. We have been in the lab and Multicam, honestly, is one of our top features. Top requested features. And like I said, I can't say for sure exactly. I don't want to get in trouble with the bosses. They may or may not be watching. I added Restream, so it's streaming to our channel too. So they probably are watching.

Eden Liu [: 00:31:03

So I'm just saying it's a great idea, Eden.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:31:06

It's a great idea.

Eden Liu [: 00:31:07

It could happen very soon.

Chris Stone [: 00:31:09

It could, let's say Conceivably, Jim. Let me ask Jim. Like, if this were a thing. So you're saying that you would fire up camo and you would have two. Maybe your iPad and your iPhone and you would be able to use both devices and maybe have a switcher that would switch between the two for a main view. Is that what we're talking about?

Jim Fuhs [: 00:31:36

That would be one concept.

Eden Liu [: 00:31:38

We can already do that. You can already hook up to that. You can switch between quickly. But you. But maybe coming soon, you can have both feeds on the same screen.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:31:48

Yeah. So maybe you have someone, like in the same location and you want to have two cameras running at the same time and you want to have like two separate videos going at the same.

Chris Stone [: 00:32:01

Time and podcast interview two different people.

Eden Liu [: 00:32:05

That's exactly what I was trying to portray with my two hands up. Was.

Chris Stone [: 00:32:09

But you were giving me the wooing.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:32:11

We have our two hands up.

Eden Liu [: 00:32:13

Yeah, the. The two people talking on the screen at the same time view maybe coming at a sooner date than you think.

Chris Stone [: 00:32:20

Awesome. Awesome.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:32:22

Wow.

Chris Stone [: 00:32:22

Yeah. So for those who are just listening and not watching, shame on. You should watch this. Go to YouTube and watch it. But if you are listening, we totally get it. Go to reincubate.com and you can go to Slash Camo. But I'm sure there's a link right off of reincubate.com that takes you to camo. And this thing is an amazing piece of software.

Chris Stone [: 00:32:45

Definitely check it out. And then what you should do is go to the office hours hosted by Pikachu Lou Edenlu and check out what we're talking about, because you touched on this and kind of breezed by a little bit, Eden. But I wanted to talk a little bit about office hours because this is like as many pieces of software as Jim and I use. They have office hours, but yours is much different. There is. There is a community around it. There is, you know, there is communities in these other places, but this one is. Is different in the best of ways.

Chris Stone [: 00:33:27

Talk about how you've cultivated that and how maybe that's affected. Maybe, you know, open tickets for people contacting stuff and, you know, you know, I just want to roll that over to you to talk about office hours and how beneficial that's been.

Eden Liu [: 00:33:45

Sure. Thank you so much for your kind words. Also, like, I do pop in on other. I like to check out other office hours to see how they are run as well. And I, even though I never thought I was going to be a content creator, clearly I'm a bit of a showman at heart. Because I do try. I do take pride in my office hours. I call it a show.

Eden Liu [: 00:34:01

It's not just office hours. It's a slow build, if I'm gonna be honest. Like, office hours took time to find a community. You know, the first couple of shows, it's different people popping in. I was doing the show at different times to start out with, and until I sort of like found one and stuck to it and was consistent about showing up Thursdays at 2pm, once a month, at the very least, sometimes more. That's when I really started to find that I would get the same people showing up and even sometimes people that missed the show. Be like, comment later, oh, I missed the show. I can't believe I was out buying groceries or something.

Eden Liu [: 00:34:41

Or just, I didn't see the notification, but I'll be there next time. And it just makes me feel like I'm doing something right. But I will say, when it comes to cultivating community, a lot of it is really building trust slowly. Like, you know, we. I would hope that nobody trusts too easily in 2025. Like, you have to kind of like people have to. You have to earn people's trust. And in this day and age, you have to earn people's time.

Eden Liu [: 00:35:05

Like, there are so many content options out there. Why would they choose to watch me instead of watching anything else available? Hopefully because I'm offering value in a. Using, helping them get the most out of a software that they already have and are using. I love to demo, like, tips and tricks, things that you maybe didn't haven't thought of. Like things in the iPad app, setting up different scenes to show people how I use it or how we think that we would like for them to try to use it if they haven't thought of it before. And we listen to feedback. That's. That's one of the main reasons that we do it, is to have direct contact with our audience and our community.

Eden Liu [: 00:35:43

Offer a space for them to ask questions directly. It's a demo and a Q and a. The Q and A is actually the main part. I really just demo stuff while I wait for questions to roll in. And anytime I get a question, I'm always happy to answer it. I don't always have the answer immediately, like I mentioned before, but I always try to make people feel like their concerns are heard, that their feedback is heard. And I found that that is what keeps people coming back. Like, even I.

Eden Liu [: 00:36:12

I was kind of surprised that when I first started to get the same people showing up time and time again, that it really sort of hit that. I'm like, oh, it did start out as maybe they just had a question, but then they ended up hanging out and realized that they just like the vibes and that they want to come back and hang out and learn more. And there's been times, actually, I feel really grateful. Shout out to casual games. I don't know if he's around watching this, but where there's an issue with that we've been working on for a while. And he kind of like jumped in and defended the software for me when I wasn't. It was sort of like a defense that I hadn't even thought of myself. And I just thought it was so cool to have someone that joined my shows on a regular basis, that cared enough about the community that I was building to stand up for me and the software that.

Eden Liu [: 00:37:07

That he uses. So those are, like, the little moments that. That make me feel really fulfilled in that I'm actually connecting with people. And, Chris, you know, I've seen you pop in on the show before. I'm not doing a polished show. I'm not doing a. Talking points. Talking points.

Eden Liu [: 00:37:23

Oh, this. This presentation. Bam. Cool transition. Boom. You know, it's very like, let me just figure out how to do this. I definitely did a lot of prepar. Totally.

Eden Liu [: 00:37:34

Yep. I. Yeah, it's. There's no scripting. As much as my bosses would probably like me to be a little bit more scripted and a little bit more prepared, sometimes, like, it just ends up to be how it is. And the people that keep coming back, those are. Those are the people that I really appreciate. And, you know, we're slowly growing the more shows that we do.

Eden Liu [: 00:37:56

And it's. With each one, you learn a little bit more about the community and the questions that people are asking and responding to them in a meaningful way. Helping people, not helping people, but, like, really communicating in a way that makes people feel like you hear them and that you acknowledge them and that you hear their issues. I can't solve the problem for them. They know that. They know I'm not a developer. But I will complain for them internally to the development team and until the development team can chip out something. So sometimes I do feel bad because it is so out of my control sometimes because I tend to be pretty empathetic and, you know, it's.

Eden Liu [: 00:38:38

I appreciate people showing up, and I wish we could do more for them, but that's not why they're there. They're not there for me to fix their problems at the end of the day. It's. They're. They've become just sort of like my community, and it's. It's a really awesome feeling. Like you guys have that too. Like.

Eden Liu [: 00:38:53

Like, how. Like, do you. Like, I feel like, because DealCassers has been around for a while now, but, like, in the earlier days when y' all were sort of first just getting started, like, do you sort remember, like, a few of those moments that, like, little moments here and there that, like, made you really feel like you were doing the right thing? That made you feel like it was worth continuing to push forward to? Like, I would love to hear you guys, too.

Chris Stone [: 00:39:15

Yeah, it was.

Eden Liu [: 00:39:17

We.

Chris Stone [: 00:39:18

We were kind of winging it and hoping for the best, and sometimes feeling like you're throwing stuff over the fence and one, you know, waiting for somebody to. To say, hey, you know, or you're sending smoke signals across the. You know, across the lake and. And like somebody's trying to read it and they read. You know, it just feels a little singular at times when you're a creator. But there were times where we'd get to the end of a stream where we were demonstrating something to. To do for podcasting, helping somebody decide on headphones or a microphone, and then they would chime in and say, I'm starting my podcast tomorrow. I'm getting these two pairs of headphones because you need to.

Chris Stone [: 00:39:53

You know, one might be more comfortable than the other, but they're about the same price or whatever. We help them, and they're starting their podcast tomorrow. And that kind of lit us up because we were like, okay, this whole Amazon thing might not last or whatever, and we were never doing this for the money, but it was one of those things where it was like, boy, if we can help people do this and still do our other stuff, that makes us money. This really feels better than anything. And so that's when it really sort of hit. And then some of the same people coming back like you mentioned. So, like, wow, this. Every time we show up, this person's here, right? Or, you know, not every single time, but most times, you know, you're feeling.

Eden Liu [: 00:40:39

It, you start to recognize. You start to recognize the usernames and. And seeing the. The them comment more and more, and it's. It's like a really awesome feeling. Can I. Can I add on just some. As you were talking, it made me think of something that happened sort of recently with my.

Eden Liu [: 00:40:57

My Burner account that James knows about. My. My K Pop Burner account. It's. I was actually sharing about this in Mary Lou's Video Creator Club, where so I create like these short form K Pop edits for my favorite K Pop group. And I. A lot of the times, like what you were saying earlier is that we feel like we are sending our content into the void. We don't know who it's actually reaching.

Eden Liu [: 00:41:19

Sometimes, you know, people comment here and there, but you don't know if it's actually landing. And so there was actually, I do some of these translation clips sometimes as like my own language practice. And there was one part that I just couldn't quite catch what the. The. What the Lido is saying in the clip. And I just put in the clip, I didn't catch what he said. And it felt so fulfilling because I got a comment from someone in Korea that helped me translate that one part that I could. Oh my God, my channel.

Eden Liu [: 00:41:46

You found my account. But someone jumped in the comments and they were like, oh, this is what he said. And they were like, you got the, the sentiment and the nuance right. It just. This is what he actually said. And I just thought it was so cool that I was able to connect with someone from all the way across the world who had never directly engaged with my content before. And feeling like it's like those little moments where you actually feel like you are talking to someone directly and they are talking back. That I think is just so cool about doing content because just like you said so much of the time, it just feels like we are sending our content out there and it is just at the mercy of the algorithms and whatever the algorithm decides to do with it that day.

Eden Liu [: 00:42:32

But when. When you get those moments of real connection and it just feels like I'm not just shooting my content into the void. People are watching my content even if they don't engage. I think that's a key point to remember. A lot of people are watching that are never engaging. Like, that also happens a lot. Like people are reading your stuff. I.

Eden Liu [: 00:42:54

Oh, sorry. Just one more tiny little story is like, I have a friend from college who was in town recently and I got together with his little friend group and little friend group. He. He was younger than me in college, but we're all adults now and they're all taller than me.

Chris Stone [: 00:43:08

I always be little to you, right?

Eden Liu [: 00:43:10

Yeah, they're always like, they're like my little brothers, you know. But like one of them was like, oh, like you're like killing it on LinkedIn. Like, I see her like, like your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn commentary about doing video. And I want to Start doing some video for my law firm and would you be up for a chat about it? And this is someone that has never, you know, they've never commented, they've never liked it, any of my posts. But like they, but people are watching. You never know. Like your, your content, when you put it, that's the thing. You have to put yourself out there.

Eden Liu [: 00:43:41

Also, like, yeah, you're, you're never going to get any of these, you're never going to make any of these connections on any level without putting yourself out there. How did I get started? I just started tweeting about a podcast. I just started posting about a podcast. But if I never, if I just kept all of those thoughts to myself, which I kind of wanted to do, but I'm going to be perfectly honest, I just didn't have any other friends to talk about it with and I felt really lonely being the only person that I was just like, I just love this show so much and I don't have anyone in real life that will talk to it with me. So I guess I'll just start posting about it on Twitter. Like, like if there's, I just, I just want to say, like, put yourself out there. Sometimes it is about putting yourself out there. Like, people will never find you if you don't put yourself out there.

Eden Liu [: 00:44:24

And I've made really, really meaningful connections in both the professional life and in like my daily life through just putting myself out there. Yeah, that's.

Jim Fuhs [: 00:44:36

Yeah.

Chris Stone [: 00:44:36

I think a lot of people, creators included, think their world is just so small and the potential, I should say, is just so small. And it's, that's not. When you go and do this, what we're doing, man, you are in, you know, 150 countries and like on all of these huge. And if you, if you know your first show is not going to be great, your second show is going to be better than your first and third and so on, back to the rest.

Eden Liu [: 00:45:00

Might not even be, but you just got to keep going. Yeah.

Chris Stone [: 00:45:03

And, but by the time that people are finding you, you've done a bunch of them. And so you, your audience is out there. Right. And you're a testament to that. I wanted to take a bit of a pivot. You touched on some of the stuff, you know, at Reincubate and so some folks don't really know as creators, they don't know what an in house creator is. And so, you know, you obviously work for Reincubate, but you have your own brand as well. And so how do you, how do you balance that.

Chris Stone [: 00:45:37

I mean, obviously the company you work for must be awesome and must rock because they just allow you to do some great content and have some, you know, you've got some autonomy that you can kind of create a show that has turned into something that's, that's really great, that complements the software, which is probably what they're, what they're hoping to do. But how do you, you know, balance that? I want to do my brand thing, but at the same time stay in the lane for being an in house creator for free. Incubate. And what does that balance look like for you?

Eden Liu [: 00:46:13

It is a lot of balance actually, because when you're creating content for work and creating your own personal content, it's often using the same type of creative energy. And that energy is not always unlimited, as you guys know. Like video editing, talking into a camera even. It takes, takes work sometimes. Often people see a two minute video, I'm gonna tell you, usually two hours went into that two minute video. And it's like a lot of it does require a lot of balance. And I am blessed that work gives me a lot of autonomy to do, to have creative freedom with the work content. But there is a part of my work content that I don't have that much creative freedom on which I'm actually okay with.

Eden Liu [: 00:46:56

Because like for example, my update videos, like my live streams are almost Instagram exclusively my own, like I get very little notes about that. My update videos, I get a lot of notes sometimes. And so it can be interesting to balance that energy sometimes for of ha. Being used to having this creative freedom, but knowing that sometimes I don't always have that creative freedom and having to balance that being an in house creator is not easy, I'm going to be perfectly honest. Like it, it requires a lot of understanding and open communication with the people that you are creating content with and for. But I really like that collaborative process. I really love, I love the input that I get from work because often it's stuff that I wouldn't have thought of myself. And when I get input of things like, oh, maybe this would be better, or maybe we want the software presented like this.

Eden Liu [: 00:47:49

Like that wasn't my vision, but that's okay. I get to challenge myself to try a different type of presentation and reframe my thinking into how I can find a balance of what the bosses want versus what I think makes the most sense. Because we do have a bit of a crossroads sometimes. Because I'm the community person, I know what our users of our software are looking for. I know what's going to resonate with them and how I present things sometimes. But I also understand sometimes things need to be presented a certain way when it comes to certain things. And that's, that's when I feel like I get to really challenge myself and I get to really see like Eden. Where am I finding the balance between what my CEO wants versus what I think makes the most sense? And four years later, we are still working on it together.

Eden Liu [: 00:48:44

So something is working, but it takes work. It takes work. It takes a lot of patience and it takes a lot of communication. And I think one really important thing is that I, I really try to strip myself of ego when it comes to content. And I think that that is not very easy for a lot of people to do, especially when you feel like the content is yours. But I often think of myself as the content's not about me. I'm the conduit for the content about the software, even my K Pop content. It's not about me.

Eden Liu [: 00:49:20

It's not. The channel's not about me. This channel is about, about the K Pop group that I stand one us. They're the best. They're about to be on tour. I can't wait to see them. But it's just like I found that when I'm able to remove my own ego from the content that I create, it puts me in a better headspace in being able to continue to create it. If I'm being honest, like, yeah, I see a lot of creators in, in the K Pop space that they have a lot of ego.

Eden Liu [: 00:49:51

That's fine, that, that's fine if that works for them. But at the same time I think that that comes through in the content sometimes and I, in a lot of ways, just sometimes you're like, it's, it's not, it's not, it's not about me and it shouldn't be about you either. But if that's how someone else wants to approach it, you know, I'm not confrontational and it's just, it just I'm not going to follow that content. But like that's also sort of something like how I apply it to work is like it's being. And that's what I think really helps me strike that balance of being an in house creator is because I'm able to remove ego from it. I'm not taking this feedback personally. It's not about me. It's about the software and how the company feels like it should be presented.

Eden Liu [: 00:50:39

And like I said, it ends up being like a fun challenge for me to piece things together from what I understand our audience to, you know, want and resonate with them and what the bosses want me to deliver. It's like a fun challenge. And so it's. But there is a lot of balance involved. Like, I think people think that being an in house creator, I'm not saying anyone thinks it's easy per se, but they. I think it's sort of a glamorized position and there's just a lot that goes on behind the scenes that most people you just don't know until you're in it. And honestly, every situation is going to be different. So I'm speaking about my experience at a company that I really enjoy working for.

Eden Liu [: 00:51:25

And I feel like we work really well together in our communication, in our ability to try to understand each other. Not everyone has that. I have some in house creator friends that are very stressed a lot of the time because they're not able to get the communication through that they need to do their jobs well. And it's like, how am I supposed to deliver something, a video that you want presented a certain way if I'm not getting the information I need from it? So it's all about like finding a team that you are able to work through things with. I think when it comes to being an in house creator, and there's always going to be bumps in the road, especially in the beginning when you're learning how to work with each other on it. But I've had a lot of fun with it and I think also approaching things with a growth mindset is also really important, is that I think of every challenge as a bump in the road, as an opportunity to challenge myself and to grow and to like, I've had moments. Oh God. I remember one of our first few updates like my boss was just like this, this, this shot is not working.

Eden Liu [: 00:52:34

And I was like, well, I don't know what you want. And I just really had to think outside the box. I maybe cried a little, you know, because I thought I couldn't come up with anything that that would actually deliver. But we always got there in the end. So it's, it's, you gotta try, you gotta be open to trying different things and, and if you can remove ego from it. I think that that's a big piece of advice that I would like to share with, with anyone that does content is, is thinking about your community and your audience more than making it about yourself. And I'm. That's not targeted at anyone.

Eden Liu [: 00:53:10

I Just I feel targeted right now.

Chris Stone [: 00:53:13

I feel so targeted. No, I, I think it's incredible advice. I think it works on many different levels. But on this, I think when you get in the space of creating and then you have somebody else that's kind of calling the shots or paying you, I always tell this to Jim. Whenever we're talking to brands or to anyone else that's offering money to what we do, it changes everything. Everything. It absolutely changes everything. And so if you think that you can continue to do everything that you, that you want to do 100% of the time, think you, you have to have this mindset, which I think is great.

Chris Stone [: 00:53:56

It's like, well, what if their suggestions are something that can make me better, right? What if I look at it as a challenge like you're talking about and what if this can, it's it. But too many people look at it as like you're sort of selling out, I guess or something, or you're like giving in and, and like, you know, like somehow you don't have as much integr do that. And I just feel like that's just goofy, right?

Eden Liu [: 00:54:18

I mean, it's a dated mindset. That's dated mindset 100%.

Chris Stone [: 00:54:22

Well, I, I, I didn't want to let you go. Before we started, we talked a little bit about, a little bit more about content creation and the space in general and what it looks like and, and what it sounds like. And I swear I'm not going to talk about AI and I'm actually happy that we actually did an episode where it never really even went there, which is like, this is very refreshing. The content space has evolved, right? I think maybe it's gotten better, maybe it hasn't, I don't know. But what do you think right now, the creator space? What's needed in the creator space? What's wrong with the creator space today?

Eden Liu [: 00:55:04

Well, I think it depends on where you're looking because creator is very wide and very broad at the moment. So, but traditionally if, say, let's talk, let's use tech, where this is the space that we're in right now. Tech, largely dominated by white males. Like, I love you guys but, but I'm just speaking honest statistics. If we do a little census of, that's what it's called, right? The census of tech creators, it's going to be a lot of white males. It's going to be a lot of males, period. Mostly male dominated. It's a very male dominated space.

Eden Liu [: 00:55:40

If you go into the makeup space, a lot More women. But like, which is another lane that I follow a lot is makeup and skincare. But in the tech space it is very, very male dominated and not that many minorities. I will be perfectly honest. When I first started doing content at camo, I, I, I noticed that, that it was glaringly obvious to me that me showing up and trying to talk tech was going to be not something that most people were used to when it came to people that are talking tech. That has changed a lot in the last four years. I will say that I have seen way more women talking content and way more women minority shouts to like, Tanya, she's awesome. Tanya Smith, Mary Lou.

Eden Liu [: 00:56:26

There's way more women talking about tech and way more representation overall. But it's really been in the last four or five years, I feel, where you really are starting to notice consciously, like YouTube algorithm, for example. Who are you seeing on those thumbnails? I think that's shifting slowly. You are starting to see more diversity. But it has been very traditionally a male dominated space. And I love that we're seeing that shift. And it, I do think it is actually happening faster than I think, which is also awesome. But when me and Mary Lou went to nab, not this last, not this year, but the year before, we, we noticed a palatable difference between how people were talking to other men versus how we were being seen or not seen.

Eden Liu [: 00:57:26

If, if I'm being honest.

Chris Stone [: 00:57:27

Yeah, yeah.

Eden Liu [: 00:57:29

There was an, an event. We rolled up to a bunch of guys and the guys that we rolled up to the event with a lot of daps, a lot of high fives. And me and Mary Lou were like, hi, I'm Eden, nice to meet you. And it was just like, it was just like we weren't even there. Like this was just two years ago. And James Hicks was there with us. It's a real anecdote and shouts to James, and he bought us ice cream after that. But, and, but I want to also say, like, I don't think necessarily it comes from a place of malice or people intentionally ignoring me and Mary Lou at that time so much as that they're just not used to seeing women in that space.

Eden Liu [: 00:58:22

And so it's almost just like, you know, to give people the benefit of the doubt. Like, they just didn't even register that we were there for the same reason that they were. And so even when we were at booths sometimes, like they, where we called, there was like a little cute little hard drive. Remember, we're like, yo, this is so cute. And they're like, we don't really want to be called cute. And I'm like, like, okay. But hey, there's nothing wrong with being cute. And also these days everyone wants things that are a little more compact and sleek looking.

Eden Liu [: 00:58:50

If that's not cute, I don't know what it is. So like if you don't want to.

Chris Stone [: 00:58:54

If you want to be called cute, then don't make something that looks cute. Right?

Eden Liu [: 00:58:58

Yeah. And it just, it really rubbed us the wrong way in, in, in a, that the fact that cute when applied to a piece of, of hardware, it was a hard drive, it was so cute. Because, you know, SSDs are getting really sleek looking and adorable these days. Okay. But the fact that cute was seen as a pejorative was very strange to me. To me and Mary Lou. Like it was, it was very strange. And like I said, we're starting to see it shift with the creators.

Eden Liu [: 00:59:27

I think that is where that like women and minorities, we are showing up. Like, I think that is where the shift is starting to. When it comes to the corporate level, it's, it's happening a little bit slower, A lot slower.

Chris Stone [: 00:59:40

You still got work to do.

Eden Liu [: 00:59:42

There's still a lot of work to be done. But we just have to keep showing up, we have to keep speaking up for ourselves. Because that's something that I have to deprogram myself on is that like I grew up, my, my parents are first gen gen immigrants. Like the whole model minority mindset where it's like I was raised being like, do not draw any attention to yourself. Like do not speak up for yourself. In fact, just pretend like it didn't happen. But things aren't ever going to change if you don't call out people on things when they happen. Like you have to speak up and it's a full deprogramming that some of us have to do as first gen Asian Americans.

Eden Liu [: 01:00:27

But being aware of it and not being afraid to continue talking about it and share these experiences I think are a good starting point in moving everyone in the right direction.

Chris Stone [: 01:00:41

I hope what you just said influences a ton of people to get started to move forward, to not be afraid to speak out, to not be afraid to fire up their phone camera and create content that, that's awesome. I know we just, you know, we could go on for another hour clearly. So you know, if you do come back, if, if, if you feel like, I hope we made you feel welcome. And we did talk about, didn't we talk about you at one point coming in and doing kind of a, a Sports. Like a first take. Power rank. Right, right, right. We got it.

Chris Stone [: 01:01:24

We gotta do that. That would be fun.

Eden Liu [: 01:01:26

I, you know, some tech tools. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Power rank. Some tech tools. Power, Power rank. Our top five cutest hard drives that we have.

Chris Stone [: 01:01:35

Oh, I'd love to do that. I'd love to do that.

Jim Fuhs [: 01:01:39

I, I do. I do have one last question though, Eden, before we wrap this up. What. What does the future hold for Eden Lou?

Eden Liu [: 01:01:49

What a loaded question, Jim. First of all, that's just, just like, just. Why don't you just like, like you just like inbounded the ball, like straight at my chest. And I just like wasn't ready for it, clearly, to bring it back to basketball. I was like, you know, I might have just stepped out of bounds for a second there, but what's next? I can tell you that I'm gonna continue creating content that's definitely in the cards. I have, I want to continue growing. I have a lot more to learn when it comes to doing video. I believe in reps.

Eden Liu [: 01:02:22

You guys know this. I love doing reps. I don't feel like I'm doing enough reps. Sometimes I have more different, like editing styles I want to try for my K pop channel. Shouts to Mary Lou. She's been a huge inspiration in pushing me to grow my, my personal channel. And I've been like trying out way more different editing styles than when I first started. That's been really fun and I hope to bring some of that editing over to the work stuff.

Eden Liu [: 01:02:46

I want to do more shorts. Shorts. I do a lot of live streaming. I do the long form content for work. I don't do any shorts for work where I do only. I've done 10 shorts for work. But like, I've done a bunch of shorts for my K pop content. I'm like, I need to bring some of those, those editing techniques and things I've learned about the algorithm over to work stuff.

Eden Liu [: 01:03:03

So that's definitely one of my goals. One of the biggest challenges I have for workshorts is like fitting camo UI, which is, you know, made for desktop, into that 9 by 16 aspect ratio. So I'm going to figure that out. That's what's next next for me, Jim. So hopefully I picked up that ball and was able to pass it back to you in a way where it didn't just was a dead ball. Yeah, yeah.

Jim Fuhs [: 01:03:29

No, that was good.

Chris Stone [: 01:03:30

That was good. You slammed it. You slammed it.

Eden Liu [: 01:03:35

I thought we weren't gonna have any gotchas.

Chris Stone [: 01:03:38

That was a bit Of a gotcha, wasn't it?

Jim Fuhs [: 01:03:40

Was that a gotcha?

Chris Stone [: 01:03:41

That was loaded.

Eden Liu [: 01:03:42

That was loaded. That was. It was. It was fun. Like I said, I told y' all I was gonna be ready for anything. Been doing this.

Chris Stone [: 01:03:49

You're awesome. This has been awesome. You can connect with eden over on LinkedIn. We want to make sure that we. We mention that. So that's where you're going to get a little more responsiveness, I think. Right on. On.

Chris Stone [: 01:04:02

On LinkedIn. But don't forget to go to reincubate.com camo. Check out that software. It's awesome. We've been subscribers for years. Love that software. And then the office hours for. For Eden is.

Chris Stone [: 01:04:19

Is at the reincubate YouTube channel, which is at. At Reincubate. Can I say that five times fast all the way to the end of the show and I can't even pronounce it?

Eden Liu [: 01:04:29

You just got back from vacation?

Chris Stone [: 01:04:31

Yes. My mind is still on a horse in the. In the Montana mountains, y'.

Eden Liu [: 01:04:35

All. I also have one thing I gotta say, y'. All. I don't know, Jim, if you remember, but I remember the first time I met you at social media marketing world. You bas basically came up to me and you were like, I use camo. And I was like, and here we are four years later, and we're still using my debut. Yes, that's right. Thank you, guys.

Eden Liu [: 01:04:53

You guys are awesome. Thank you guys for. Yeah, I know. That's. That's another one of my goals is to fire up my game streams again. Sorry. Oh, I can't believe I forgot about my game streaming. Yeah, Ace Attorney is my.

Eden Liu [: 01:05:06

I do a little bit of twitch streaming. I did for a while. Me and my work bestie. But that's. That's gotta come back. I know, Anthony. Thank you for reminding me. It is.

Eden Liu [: 01:05:14

It is coming back.

Chris Stone [: 01:05:15

Saeed is here, man. You want to talk about super fans. The best man, the facilitator. Awesome. Awesome. All right, everybody. Perfect equals boring. Eden, Lou, make sure you check out Pikachu Lou and Reincubate Camo.

Chris Stone [: 01:05:33

And as always, don't fear the gear.

Jim Fuhs [: 01:05:37

Thanks for listening to dealcasters. Congratulations. You've taken another step forward in your content creation journey. Please don't forget to hit the subscribe or follow button here in your favorite podcast player so you can be reminded every time we drop an episode.

Chris Stone [: 01:05:53

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Jim Fuhs [: 01:06:13

If you have questions about this episode or have something you want us to review, you can also email us at dealcastersealcasters Live. Thanks again for listening and you know the deal. Don't fear the gear.