Holly Shannon - Zero To Podcast

Holly Shannon - Zero To Podcast

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Chris Stone: [: 00:00:00

Jim Fuhs: Holly Shannon is not only the best selling author of Zero to Podcast, but also the producer and host of Culture Factor 2.0, which explores the company cultures of today and what businesses are doing to adapt very quickly.

Chris Stone: Holly also has a tremendous passion for podcasters of all levels and also gives us all some strategies that we can take our podcast to the next level. So get ready for takeoff.

Holly Shannon: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Chris. Thank you for having me, Jim. Of course. This is great. I ate all the cookies and milk in the back, so there's none left.

And I, and I actually brought the champagne 'cause you said it was a party, so, you know.

Chris Stone: Oh, nice. You got a headstart on us. Very nice.

Yeah. So, so Holly, um, you, [: 00:01:00

So now I know you're a recent, uh, arrival to that area from our conversation, so we'll see. Maybe you'll like the football team, maybe you won't, but, uh,

Holly Shannon: well, it'd be nice to do a live event, right?

Jim Fuhs: Yeah.

Chris Stone: Oh, geez. Yeah. Well, you in your, in your position, maybe prior, you did that right? You, you worked, uh, in, in the event space.

Maybe you could talk a little bit about that because that did lead you to where you're at now and writing the book and, and being involved in the, uh, in the podcasting space.

Holly Shannon: Yeah, so I had always been in the event space. I've done, um, trade shows, conferences, boutique hospitality, very large events and very small, um, curated ones that are for like the C-suite board level retreats.

eting strategy, which I did, [: 00:02:00

So I got to do that. And then Covid hit and the whole event, industry and hotels, everything took a no dive. So I actually got into podcasting a bit by accident and, uh, have come to really enjoy it and thought this is really great. It's such a great marketing tool. And so I, uh, have built out of it the, uh, ability to get businesses, uh, you know, B2B and, and in individuals into podcasting.

. Great benefits to it. I, I [: 00:03:00

Chris Stone: Yeah, I mean, you were, you were meant to be here, right?

It, I mean, who knew? You know, you, we weren't in control. We didn't know that, that, uh, we were gonna have this pandemic. And it sounds like you're absolutely passionate and happy where you're at, which is awesome. So did you. When you were in those spaces, when you were, when you were doing what you were doing there, what exactly got you into doing podcasting?

Did you have those relationships from what you were doing prior and said, Hey, I'm going to see now that Covid is happening, how I can work with these businesses to, to help launch their podcasts?

Holly Shannon: Actually, no. Um, that would've been an easier way, but it just didn't happen that way. 'cause a lot of those businesses imploded, at least for the time being.

size. I, I like to joke, I'm [: 00:04:00

You know, I had done it live and in person, experiential events, that type of thing. And then it was translating it to the page, it was translating it to the voice. So I built out content for a lot of websites and, um, had learned that podcasting would be a really good tool. Four companies got into it. I was actually working with a startup, um, that was looking for a poll marketing tool.

is that in podcasting, and, [: 00:05:00

Um, they, they have the chops as they say. So, um, it's just finding the right people and hopefully asking the right questions. Um, I think I, I do a pretty good job of it. Uh, I've, I've definitely gotten the podcast up to a really good level now. Um, I've, I'm happy to say it, it reached a top 10 spot with Feed Spot and it's ranked globally in the top 3%, so.

ith content, it was sort of. [: 00:06:00

Jim Fuhs: So you already kind of, I guess, liked writing, doing that sort of thing, but then you got into the audio. Um, I think a lot of times it's like, I think it's that struggle to go from audio to written, but, uh. 'cause obviously you if you're able to put that stuff out. So really what drove you then to, to write the book?

Uh, zero to podcast.

Holly Shannon: So I had the podcast and I realized that I am very curious and I might wanna start another podcast. And so I. I was also transitioning, the startup I was working with was going one direction, I was going another, and um, I wasn't sure if I'd still have the podcast, so I decided, let me.

Cliff notes version, if you [: 00:07:00

And when I was done, I was kind of like. I should share this with people, like I should not keep this just for me. And so I wanted to share it with the world. So I went about turning it into, uh, an actual book and not just something for me. And so now it's out there so that other people can get their idea on iTunes.

ctually help thousands, tens [: 00:08:00

Yes, exactly. So how much of the book is based on, let's just say. The philosophies of, of podcasting, not necessarily like the tech and stuff. So on, on, on deal casters, Jim and I talk to a lot of people that, uh, you know, their first question is the type of microphone that you buy, right? Um, and they, they, they immediately go into the, you know, the delivery systems and, oh, oh, like what do you use as your host?

Do you use Simple Cast or do you use Lipsy or. They immediately go into that kind of thing before they think about actually the content itself and why they're doing it, what they wanna accomplish. So how much of the book is based on, you know, that philosophical? 'cause I know when you're working with a lot of businesses, I'm sure you know, as, as I do as well, you'll, you'll talk to 'em about developing a podcast and you ask them why they're doing it, maybe, or, or what they wanna accomplish.

really know what they wanna [: 00:09:00

Holly Shannon: Actually quite a bit. So, um, I do address all of what I call the static pieces of it. Okay. So. What's the microphone I'm going to use?

What are, you know, what's the headset I'm going to use? Um, and yes, like you said, the podcast host, is it Simple Caster or Libsyn? And I do discuss all of that in there because they are legit questions, right. But to me, there's so much more. And so when I addressed this, when I addressed this book, I took it from the standpoint of, well, I was new to podcasting.

d, and all the other things. [: 00:10:00

And so I designed this book with. My personal mindset where I was, so no technical expertise in the area, you know, didn't have money to throw at it for big, fancy equipment. Didn't know the first thing about how to do a podcast or what an RSS feed is, which is real simple syndication. I didn't know any of this stuff, so it was really written from a very raw and genuine newbie.

, I'm on clubhouse often and [: 00:11:00

Like that magic is in the niche. Like you want to get that niche right? You wanna drill down your podcast because it's not for everybody. Even if you think it is, it's not for everybody. So you could say, I'm doing a podcast on health and wellness and it's for anybody who's age 18 to 80, 85. 'cause they all care, care about health and wellness.

e more like between the ages [: 00:12:00

Like we start to drill it down. So that's for like maybe an individual for a business. Um, I am always asking the why. Why do you wanna have it? Because it, there's work that goes into it, but it could be really beautiful work and it could be something that could be a, a tool that builds company culture. It could be a tool that to really highlight the thought leaders that work in your company and to get them future, um, keynote.

Speaking positions. Uh, it could get them a TEDx. I mean, if they learn to speak and interview well and, and be a part of that community, um, they could build a conference from there. They could build a virtual conference if we never get out of our house. So there's, there's a lot that can be done, and those are things I address in the book.

bout. The big picture at the [: 00:13:00

Jim Fuhs: So, Holly, that now that you've, uh, you've written the book and you've had some time, are there things now that you're like, I almost need to go back and like write the second edition and these are some things.

I wish I had put in the first edition. Are there any things like that that you have discovered?

Holly Shannon: You know, it's funny, like you were saying, uh, you have some new tools that use two lately. Script, hello Audio. There's like a lot of new kids on the block. Right. And I think if I did another iteration of the book or the next copyright or.

ples to five different types [: 00:14:00

There's all kinds, but. At some point you have to just pick one, give them a taste. They might have to go to YouTube University for a little bit more, do tutorials, and there'll be new kids on the block that change the way we do it. So perhaps there'll be another version at some point. Or maybe there'll be sections that I dive deeper into.

Like for example, for businesses, I really could practically write a book about all of the different. Components of, uh, building one for a company and, and the why behind that. So I probably could do podcasting for B2B. Have it be its own separate entity. So zero to zero to podcasting business. I don't know.

ackson, the streaming lawyer [: 00:15:00

You're too involved in the tech, you know, by the time it's published there's some outdated stuff in there. Right. So, so it sounds like you really spent, um, an inordinate amount of time on the mindset on developing the plan on, on all of that. And I think one of the things that, you know, as a podcaster myself and where I also work with podcasters, I find that there's a.

peep and you poured yourself [: 00:16:00

So how do you work with someone that, um, you know, you mentioned imposter syndrome and you know, there's also, you know, a lot of people that compare themselves to, especially in the content, you know, when you're looking at subscribers and all that. But in podcasting, it's like, it's a smaller pool, right?

Than YouTube channels. And, uh, but it can be very lonely. So what, what's, what's your take on that and, and how have you maybe historically worked with people that, that are battling those kinds of things?

Holly Shannon: Those are all really good questions. So I think that when you're doing something new, I think there's always a, a certain measure of imposter syndrome.

and before you know it, you [: 00:17:00

Then you start to think about, oh, who could I interview? You know, like that's another really great thing. Yeah, there's, there's some loneliness, but like I, I love when I can sit and I can. Strategize for myself, like, who do I wanna interview or to be spontaneous, like I read like a really cool article on LinkedIn about somebody, um, or I just hear about something and I could like immediately click act on it.

Like I could just pull to email that person, pull DM them, and ask 'em to come on the podcast. And, and being curious, like you can interview so many different people. It's ridiculous. Like. Everybody says yes to a podcast. So it's just a great way to meet people. Um, hell, if you're on a job search, like it kicks doors in, like you can talk to, to people that would never even look at your resume.

just such a great tool. Uh, [: 00:18:00

Uh, so that might be a way to not feel lonely or, or maybe you have somebody who's really good at the social media strategy so you can have somebody to work with on that.

Chris Stone: I love that. I think, I think involving somebody else is key. Whether it's hiring something someone like you or just having a partner, you know, to just bounce some things off that will help you sort of sharpen the irons and give you some, some honest feedback.

nest with me, and if they do [: 00:19:00

Right. So I think it's, it's important to surround yourself and Yeah. I'm lucky to have, uh, you know, Jim here on, on this thing and I'm sure along the way for you, when you were doing, when you started Culture Factor and you started doing that. Along the way you found somebody that was helping you through your journey.

Can you, can you talk a little bit about that?

Holly Shannon: You know, I've had some interesting cheerleaders, so it's funny how social media has become where a lot of our relationships have been forged. You know, of course my family supports me. I mean, it goes without saying. My son has been like, amazing. He listened to my podcast.

u know, you don't, you don't [: 00:20:00

Being on social media. I've had so many interesting conversations with people on LinkedIn, uh, clubhouse, Instagram, people I've met, and it's so nice because you can, you can riff with them, you could collaborate with them. Sometimes they become people that you interview. Uh, so yeah, I think I've had both.

What I'd love to say though, Chris, is to what you said about being able to take criticism. I think it's all about active listening on both sides. So being able, when you're interviewing somebody to actively listen to like hear what they're saying without already formulating in your head what you wanna say.

share with you, and not try [: 00:21:00

So I just gotta be in that moment, you know? So even when my, my son said to me, mom, you don't have to say. So let me ask you this question. He said, because you're already asking the question. Exactly. You know, that type of thing. Like I was like, oh my gosh. Like I could have taken that personally and been like, well, don't criticize me.

I'm doing the best I can. Or I could say, yeah, you know what? That's kind of redundant, I guess I don't need to say, can I ask another question when I'm gonna ask another question? So we're all just learning again, right? We don't know what we don't know. It's all good.

Chris Stone: Exactly. It's those conversational things.

time on, on things like, can [: 00:22:00

Holly Shannon: Right? Right. So, Jim, you have to teach me some tricks.

ve show I've been doing since: 2018

Holly Shannon: I have to say.

I'm, I'm also of the school [: 00:23:00

And I will put something out, even if it's not my finest hour in terms of editing or just something about, it's not perfect. I, I just. In the essence of keeping the content and the rhythm going and keeping the audience happy that they're receiving something every week. 'cause I told 'em it'll be there every Tuesday.

I just do it, I have to admit.

Jim Fuhs: Right. No, that's great. I, and, and one of my favorite sayings, Chris has heard me say this before, uh, the p imperfection is poison. So I think it's great that you, uh, actually feel like I don't have to be perfect. I'm just, I'm, you know. Good is better than great. I, I like that, that, that's a new one.

I hadn't heard that before. Good is better than great, but you're right. Get it out there. Right, because just the fact, like even the fact that you wrote this book because you wanted to help other people get started, right? I mean, it started out as like, uh, you know, I mean, that's a brilliant idea. I mean, I think a lot of times Chris and I have fallen into that.

have all this information in [: 00:24:00

Holly Shannon: Just go read my book. True. Yes. Go read my book everybody.

Yeah, no, you should, you should write an ebook. You guys are next.

Chris Stone: Oh yeah. It's, I guess it's kind of hard to write a book when you're on clubhouse, right? So, um, it, it's, you gotta set parameters for yourself when, when you get yourself involved in it. And I, I love how. We've just, we've touched on all of these sort of, you know, elements of mind junk that keep people from starting something.

ven, right? Yeah. I know it's: 2021

And I think a lot of people, they see podcasts as being, you know, the hot thing and they think they're maybe late to the game. Um, and, and they think, oh, well, you know. I, I wish I had gotten my podcast started five years ago. It would be just so big right now, but it, but, and especially in the last year, there was a lot of people that launched a podcast but are now fading away after, you know, pod fading after six or or eight episodes when you're working with businesses.

And by the way, go to holly shannon.com if you want to work with Holly to individuals and businesses that wanna work with. Holly, but when you're working with these businesses, how do you keep them move? Like you just talked about moving forward, not, you know, pushing past perfectionism, and really some of it is how do you get the content if you're not necessarily guest reliant?

ou work with a, with a, with [: 00:26:00

Holly Shannon: That's great. I love this. So, first of all, a podcast is such a great marketing tool. So let's just say we're starting from a place where as business says, we think we'd like a podcast.

And we're not a hundred percent sure, but we think we wanna podcast. Talk to us about it. So the first thing that I would be asking them is. What is your goal ultimately with it? Is it just to have a podcast or do you have sort of that long-term game for it? Are you looking to have virtual or live conferences at some point?

think understanding that and [: 00:27:00

So. Let's say you want to highlight the thought leaders that work in your company. You have all of these amazing people that work for you, with you and around you, and you want to start sharing, uh, what you're doing, trends, conversations you're having. You wanna share it with the world, right? Like you want everybody to know what you know, kind of like you go on Clubhouse and you're sharing with the world everything you know.

at they have that makes them [: 00:28:00

I mean, I got lucky. I got asked to be on two stages this past February. So it happens once your voice is out there and people hear you, and they know that you know what you're talking about. Uh, they, they invite you to speak on platforms. So what does that do? That elevates your brand. That elevates the individual.

That makes people wanna subscribe and download past episodes and listen to what you guys are talking about. It lets you build things. Maybe you're gonna build an ebook, like I was saying about for, for you. You know, you're talking about all different things. Like each of the people that you interview could be a chapter and you could be creating content that also builds on your brand.

other step. The flip side is [: 00:29:00

And it allows you to highlight different things happening in your company. 'cause let's face it, nobody's opening that email that you sent with the company newsletter. Nobody. Right? So if you have a way to highlight different things happening in the company and the personalities and the lives of the people to work with, you become closer.

talking about? What are the [: 00:30:00

Who's gonna do, you know, the, the audiogram? And it becomes collaborative. So when you collaborate, you're, you're building community. So it, there's so many things you can do for a business with a, with a podcast

Chris Stone: for sure. Yeah. I love that. And, and not once did you mention downloads? It's why whenever I work with someone, I, I say it's six months because you'll, you'll know before then, uh, and think, you know, but it just, it's a bit of a long game.

You know, it takes a while for the lights to come on everywhere and for you to start to get into, you know, 40, 50, 60 countries, you know, and getting that activity. I mean, you know, you're, you're, you're basically available in all, all of these countries, but. People don't know who you are just yet, maybe. And so, you know, I think a lot of people when they say they first launch a podcast and they wanna monetize, right?

mm. And that's a reason, you [: 00:31:00

And, you know, how many times did we work for companies in historically where it's just like. Oh, look, it's blahdy blah month and here's this saying, go to our our internal web portal and read an article. Nobody's going there. Right? Right. Nobody's reading those emails. If you do something original and you're actually interviewing someone and that person in the company's on it, what are they gonna do?

id, I'd love, I love another [: 00:32:00

It's, and, and we say it all the time, you gotta put the reps in, but I, but the microphone being a dumbbell is just like, you know, it just sort of adds to that. But once you get those reps in and you're a real podcaster after six months, uh, or so, then, then you start seeing. What you hoped you would start to see at the end of it.

And if that's, you know, driving them to more products or creating a community or, or any of those things, that's when those things start to happen.

Holly Shannon: I agree. You know, I'd like to make two points. So you spoke about the downloads and everybody gets so caught up in these vanity metrics. So let me ask you a question.

is. So my question is, okay, [: 00:33:00

Then you're gonna have a hundred thousand people that stopped listening to your podcast a long time ago, but because they subscribed, it's automatically coming to their phone. So it's not even a real measurement of where your community actually is. So would you rather have, you know, a thousand completely engaged?

where they're going to have, [: 00:34:00

Some of the best speakers you have will be highlighted there. Uh, they'll have ways to grow themselves. 'cause you know, the people you're talking to obviously have a growth mindset, right? So do you want to have like a really high ticket, very exclusive mastermind retreat down the road? Or do you just want a hundred thousand people?

So you could just say you had a hundred thousand and then you got some ads that were some monthly recurring revenue, but does not beat that nice price ticket. Right. For, for the conference. So they're not all created equal.

Jim Fuhs: Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. And actually, uh, our friend Phil is, uh, chimed in and he has a question.

cybersecurity home security, [: 00:35:00

I think he's in the perfect one of those niches. I. That a lot of people would say, I'd love to listen to somebody talk to me about this subject that's an expert. I mean, what do you think, Holly?

Holly Shannon: A hundred percent. Um, first of all, like we said, the magic is in the niche. So the fact that you're already niched down and you specialize in that Phil, and it's something that you are knowledgeable about it, that is perfect and you can interview people.

ind of interviewing yourself [: 00:36:00

Chris Stone: He's a, he's a great example of it. I've watched a couple of, he's, he's an Amazon live, uh, creator as well, and I, you know, you can tell like, within five, 10 minutes, I'm learning something already and you can't, you can't turn away. You're like, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. You know, I started asking some questions about voice activated home security.

I didn't know about it. And that's the great thing about podcasting is that, like you said, you could be super niche. In fact, you should be super niche because I think a lot of people think that barrier entry is just, oh my gosh, it's just so huge. Well, there's 38 million YouTube channels, you know, there's 600 million blogs.

nt to go there. I want to go [: 00:37:00

That is, that means so much to someone. 'cause it's a, it's maybe not financially, but it's a payoff. It's like, that's what I needed to hear. That's, that's a, that's a payoff. This is why I am doing it. This is why I, I lifted the microphone and, and did the curls and, and put in the reps.

Holly Shannon: Yeah,

Chris Stone: exactly. Exactly.

Jim Fuhs: So, Holly, tell us, tell us about the podcast itself. And, and maybe Chris, if you wanna,

k one of the greatest things [: 00:38:00

And I don't think there's any greater marketing thing there is for a podcast other than somebody to go, have you heard Culture Factor 2.0 by Holly Shannon? Man, this interview she had with Steven Eugene Kuhn, um, was just, man, you know, she talked about this, he talked about this, or whatever, and share it with somebody.

I think that is the greatest marketing, uh, engine for, for a podcast. What are your, what's your take on that?

Holly Shannon: I agree. I share podcasts all the time. I, I enjoy listening to other people and the different stories that they share and. Word of mouth is always the best, right? So if, if you could share, um, culture factor, that would be really great.

ou know, that's, that's what [: 00:39:00

Jim Fuhs: is caring.

Holly Shannon: Yes. You had asked me about the podcast and what it was about. Mm-hmm. And so what I'd like to tell you is that culture factor started out around the concept that culture eats strategy for breakfast.

It's a, it's a famous saying, and it was one that really reflected classical business and the way it's always been done and started the podcast with that in mind and was interviewing people about. What makes a healthy company culture for them, you know? And it was from the C-suite talking with, with founders and leaders and really having that conversation along the way.

t are, you know, up and down [: 00:40:00

We're all remote, somewhat hybrid. Um, there's some companies that have just gone under, some are just trying to figure it out 'cause maybe they're in like manufacturing and distribution. Thank you. Essential workers. And so it's changed and I felt that the old model for doing business business was not the conversation anymore.

So I took a look at company culture and said. It's different. Now we have to talk about how Covid is shaping it. What, what are leaders doing now to keep their businesses afloat and what's happening with the people who work there. Um, some are having excruciating levels of burnout and some are becoming emerging leaders.

, the podcast. So I actually [: 00:41:00

And I actually have interviewed, you know. Up and coming leaders that are in the ecosystem of their, of their business to try and understand, well, what are they doing? How, how are we all working together? You know, what, our work life and our personal life are so intertwined now. There's no work life balance is kind of a fallacy, right?

ically infiltrates your home [: 00:42:00

So it's really, really hard. So that's been the conversation. And then I recently had thought that, um, I almost want to. Take a slight break from it to watch the next iteration of company culture because now that we're getting vaccinated and there's hope in the future, um, what businesses will go back to brick and mortar?

What businesses will adopt fully remote? What businesses will go hybrid and what will work? Not the same for everybody, but what will work and what, and what does business look like then? And how are you building culture now? So the podcast really has taken on a lot of different lives, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure where it's going, so maybe that's the beauty part of it.

Um, so [: 00:43:00

Chris Stone: So Holly, you mentioned that there are, you've talked to, uh, some people on the podcast that are emerging leaders and that have, uh, developed great. Strategies, tactics, whatever, what have you, uh, to develop, uh, you know, and make their company grow during this, during this time.

And have, what are some examples maybe of, of people that you've spoken to during this time and maybe some, some things that they're doing that are, that are changing, uh, this whole, this whole narrative and then when we get to. Whatever the other side of this or when, you know, like you said, the vaccine's out and, and people start to feel more comfortable, you know, coming and you know, together and whatnot.

Are they going to thrive and be that further ahead from those that are just sort of sitting and waiting back for the doors to just open again?

much to unpack there. So the [: 00:44:00

There's certain companies that have really thrived through this. You know, you look at the tech industry, for example. Um, make no mistake, there are years ahead of us now, right? Like if you're a store that made cookies and you're a store who made a SaaS platform, it's like a completely different animal. So I think that people are moving forward, and what I'm seeing is that when I say emerging leadership, I think that companies, because this happened so fast, they were open to people within the company, um, morphing the company, like helping it make changes and open to new ideas because it, it was overnight.

only way to really survive. [: 00:45:00

When I say merging leadership, I don't necessarily mean that like the youngest are thriving because actually what I'm seeing is a, a unique. Uh, dynamic that people that were starting to be looked upon as aging out of certain communities, businesses are now being looked at a little bit differently because they bring a different experience to the table about how to maintain relationships.

oes not have the same amount [: 00:46:00

Things to share and they will, and they're gonna grow and everybody's can thrive with the company. I'm just saying, you know, make no mistake, there's, there's been emerging leadership happening in a lot of different ways and I think that's what's so beautiful is that, um, I. I think everybody can win in some way.

If, if companies recognize that, if they, if they can pull together and allow for that to emerge. And, and when I say mentor, cross mentor, like I think it's really important that somebody who's 25 years old in the company is mentoring somebody who's 50 and somebody who's 50 is mentoring somebody who's 40.

hnically proficient, but you [: 00:47:00

Chris Stone: Right? Yeah. I mean, it's about being open to anyone around you, whether they're in your company or around you, because there's. Okay. There is, there's some bad information out there. Let's not, you know, you know, but mm-hmm. You can learn a lot like I used to, you know, whenever I would go into a company I would spend time with.

Whoever was in reception I would spend time with, I would go walk into the mail room, I would go, you know, not, these aren't companies that I actually worked for. I think there's ways for you to, it could be a client, it could be whatever, and then there's gotta be ways to do that virtually now as well.

we listen, right? How can we [: 00:48:00

Um, and I think there's something to be learned. So that, I mean, I'm glad you you brought that up and, and it's just. It can be disappointing at times to think, boy, I wish that had happened prior to Covid and then we didn't, we never had Covid. Right. And then, you know, that would be fantastic. But, you know, those, those are things that you have to go through in order to learn, I guess, for some companies.

Holly Shannon: Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it's perfect for every company. I mean, I think a lot of 'em are still struggling, but the ones that I have seen that have embraced, um. That emerging leadership mentality, um, a growth mentality, uh, to let people school up, learn up in any way they want because they have like a, a, an idea and they wanna see if it, if it helps.

Um. Are those [: 00:49:00

Some are killing it on Twitter. They're, they're building. Morning brew is a perfect example. They're building and scaling publicly on Twitter every freaking day, and they're building the, um, the individuals that work there. Personal branding is happening as well. I had Toby Howell on my show. He's 25. I learned a lot from him.

ike open to the process and, [: 00:50:00

Chris Stone: Love it.

Jim Fuhs: So, so Holly, you, you made a major shift, you know, like a lot of us had to because of, of what happened with the pandemic.

Where do you see yourself going? I mean, now that you've kind of like you've got this business, you're working with other companies to help them with podcasts, do you see yourself staying in this space or do you think you may go back into the event industry?

Holly Shannon: It's probably the second time. Um, I've watched the event industry.

Have it struggle. So I'm a little reluctant to put all my eggs in that basket. Again, I'm not exactly sure right now I'm building, you know, this is like my passion project is, you know, the, the audio excellence and building for businesses and individuals. I think I can see this actually morphing to a bit of an agency model.

at I've built type of thing, [: 00:51:00

You know, for lack of a better way of putting it, agency where, you know, I can bring other talents in and we, we work together to create, you know, great products or what, I don't know what's next for Holly. Shannon, what do you guys think?

Chris Stone: I'll ask you. We'll have you on later, and then you could, you could share all the fantastic things that have happened since we stopped, right?

Jim Fuhs: Holly, thanks again. It was a pleasure. Uh, like I said, when I, when you and I had that conversation a few weeks back, I said, yeah, we gotta, we gotta get you on here 'cause you got a great message to share. So thanks again.

his was really, really great [: 00:52:00

Bye-bye. First maiden Voyage and the Amazon. So

Chris Stone: thank you. Thanks Hallie.

Holly Shannon: Thanks for being gentle and, and thanks for everybody listening and feel for your great question. Thanks.

Chris Stone: Alright everybody, we'll see you next time. Don't fear the gear.

Jim Fuhs: Thanks for listening to Deal casters. Congratulations, you've taken another step forward in your content creation journey.

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ou can also email us at deal [: 00:53:00